So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
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12-06-2012, 02:40 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
I still apologize...I don't mean to harrass you as a person, but I'm not likely to stop bashing belief in things that run contrary to reality. You just happen to be the biggest proponent of those beliefs on this forum.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-06-2012, 06:19 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
Good luck in this new endeavor...it's good to do things that mean something to you.

Perhaps your more rational view of religion and the Bible won't be too stifled by the rules you will have to follow.

It would be nice if you could teach being open-minded. After the ill-treatment I endured from Baptists (and others) for being raised Catholic, it would be nice for someone to point out that children really don't have much of a choice if their parent or parents have chosen a religion for them.

Teaching the faithful to really act Christlike, in it's best sense, isn't a bad thing.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-06-2012, 06:34 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
Any well-known atheist that has a public debate still shows respect towards the theist/christian. Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennet, Ra, and Harris (all people who have inspired, furthered, and helped prove your disbelief in a higher power) have all had civilized conversations about their differences with theists. The most common stereotype that atheists get (and most of them despise) is that they are all "angry" and "hateful." Truly none of you are the epitome of that right now... truly.

I have a cousin and a few friends who believe sarcasm and ridicule is the best way to show religion as false, silly, impossible, etc. And while the words they choose may even be the most poignant, and everything they say in their debates and arguments are true, their words fall on deaf ears because of the attitude in which they approach. No doubt many of you may believe the same way. But how many times have you been in an argument and instead of people refuting your claims or thoughts, they attack your attitude? You may not necessarily lose the debate, but you lose the audience, you lose your opponent, and often times lose track of what you are defending or opposing.

Perhaps I'm being too unrealistic, which doesn't happen often. "But now and again, the moon turns orange." -Quote from a resident in a retirement home I used to work for. She said it every time she thought something was unusual.

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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12-06-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 06:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It would be nice if you could teach being open-minded. After the ill-treatment I endured from Baptists (and others) for being raised Catholic, it would be nice for someone to point out that children really don't have much of a choice if their parent or parents have chosen a religion for them.
Yup! My husband's family (Baptist, former Mennonite) called me names for being raised in a Catholic home, and it struck me as so odd because I had never experienced two different Jesus believing sects of faith being such haters. At the time it made me mad, but now it's funny- my favourite was "Voodoo Bead Worshipper". Ha ha. Thems some fightin' words!
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12-06-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 06:45 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(12-06-2012 06:19 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It would be nice if you could teach being open-minded. After the ill-treatment I endured from Baptists (and others) for being raised Catholic, it would be nice for someone to point out that children really don't have much of a choice if their parent or parents have chosen a religion for them.
Yup! My husband's family (Baptist, former Mennonite) called me names for being raised in a Catholic home, and it struck me as so odd because I had never experienced two different Jesus believing sects of faith being such haters. At the time it made me mad, but now it's funny- my favourite was "Voodoo Bead Worshipper". Ha ha. Thems some fightin' words!
I was told by a local pastor in SC that a revivalist had been preaching that Catholics were the closest things to Satanists. To which I replied that I wasn't sacrificing cats under the full moon. I had never heard that before in my life.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
Out of curiosity, are they foot-washing Baptists or all-over Baptists?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 06:34 PM)AmishLatinJew Wrote:  I have a cousin and a few friends who believe sarcasm and ridicule is the best way to show religion as false, silly, impossible, etc. And while the words they choose may even be the most poignant, and everything they say in their debates and arguments are true, their words fall on deaf ears because of the attitude in which they approach.
Don't be so sure that sarcasm and ridicule does not work on people after the fact. We have a meter in our heads that makes us first defensive, than later reflective when others laugh at our ideas or beliefs. We often "bounce" ideas off others often for their reaction. Peer pressure in the form of ridicule keeps people religious as well.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 08:55 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-06-2012 06:29 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi KC. In my experience most Christians are exceptionally good at avoiding real answers to real questions. Here is your chance to break the mold.


Ermmm *points up to the Ask A Theist! thread*

Quote:Why are you preaching?


Theology is something that I just "get". I'm also a former teacher, and I feel that God has called me to share with others in my class.

Quote:Are you getting paid?


No. Never been paid, nor would I ever accept payment.

Quote:Are you doing this for personal prestige?


No. Many of you know my personality. I don't really like people IRL. I'm a pretty cold person, apparently. I tend to do a lot better with people when I don't have to constantly be face-to-face. For me to actually teach and be in front of people is something I don't really like (as I prefer to be behind a keyboard). The only reason I step out of my comfort zone and teach is because God has given me messages to share with my class.

Quote:Is it a career move?


lol no.

Although, I have considered seminary... briefly. Not in seriousness, though.

Quote:Do you hope to get sex out of it?


What? No. I'm married to a hot chick. Granted, I can't have sex for another two weeks, though.

Quote:Do you honestly think you will be contributing something of value to your students? Why?


I believe I offer a different type of insight to student because of my background and my studies. Most layman teachers in the church aren't as learned as I am, so God is able to reveal to them through me unique interpretations.

Quote:I am pleased to hear you are not teaching Christianity to children. Has it occurred to you that your audience may pass your teachings on to their children? I assure you they might. How do you feel about that?


Because they are fellow Christians, I do hope they pass it to their children. I always take great care in whatever I teach to make sure it 100% aligns with scripture. I take James 3:1 very seriously.

Quote:I will be honest with you. I fail to understand how an intelligent man can live with himself after teaching primitive toxic doctrine to innocent people. You almost seem pleased about your new venture. Shame on you.


Shame on you for pretentiously condemning my chosen path. I am not proselytizing; I am teaching fellow believers. Your failure to understand or accept Christianity does not mean that it is wrong or toxic. Your beliefs and opinions aren't fact for everyone. Actually, your condemnation is eerily similar to that which atheists so strongly condemn. Let me ask you this, do you revel in your hypocrisy?

Quote:Can you not sense you are on a sinking ship? In future times history will not be kind to people of your ilk.


This is pretty much what Christian eschatology is about. Except, without the sinking ship thing. As prophesied, the future of Christians is going to be difficult.

Quote:I may be misjudging you, as you may, somehow, have genuinely decided Christianity has something new, valuable or interesting to offer people. If so, you are still guilty of seriously poor judgement.


Your unabashed, judgmental nature is actually quite astonishing. Are you this way with everyone who you disagree with?


Hi KC, thanks for your answers, in particular not avoiding the difficult questions.

I will have a read of the "ask a theist" thread.

So god has asked you to preach. Mmmm. Did he "speak" to you? If so, have you discussed this with a doctor? If not so, "God" is not speaking to you, you are just following your own path.

Nice to hear you are not getting paid. If you were it would have been with tax free dollars and if i was an American, that would seriously piss me off.

What can you possibly reveal to them about the world that is beneficial, given that you are 100% aligning your teaching with scripture? 95% of scripture is nasty, deluded stuff. I suspect you might disagree. I will read all your "ask a theist post" to understand why. I would be interested in your opinion on two of my bogs, http://www.markfulton.org/the-psychologi...ristianity and http://www.markfulton.org/christianity-a...al-society If you read them, you will understand why I am so "unabashed" and "judgmental" about people preaching Christianity to unsuspecting victims. I appreciate you are not as "fundamentalist' as the characters portrayed in my blogs, yet you are nevertheless still preaching toxic doctrine.

No, I am not "this way" with everyone i disagree with. My language is more colourful than usual because you are addressing the public, promoting Christianity, and i am therefore at war with you. You are well liked here, and I like your honesty and your bravado, but I am nevertheless vehemently opposed to people preaching Christianity to the public. Although I do respect your right to do so, I'm not going to let it pass as acceptable behaviour without comment.

Think of it like this. If you were holding public lectures on the health benefits of smoking, I would be making a noise too. If you were teaching that to susceptible children, I would be even louder. Preaching Christianity is no different...it is untruthful. immoral, compromises people's health, and is ultimately all about making a profit.

You are quite right that the future of Christianity is going to be difficult, but not because of bullshit written by anonymous scribes in scripture. Mankind is waking up, getting educated, and , at long last, dismissing Christianity as evil and irrelevant. It may not be happening in your little corner of the world, but i assure you, it is happening, at long last.
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12-06-2012, 09:31 PM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 08:17 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(12-06-2012 06:34 PM)AmishLatinJew Wrote:  I have a cousin and a few friends who believe sarcasm and ridicule is the best way to show religion as false, silly, impossible, etc. And while the words they choose may even be the most poignant, and everything they say in their debates and arguments are true, their words fall on deaf ears because of the attitude in which they approach.
Don't be so sure that sarcasm and ridicule does not work on people after the fact. We have a meter in our heads that makes us first defensive, than later reflective when others laugh at our ideas or beliefs. We often "bounce" ideas off others often for their reaction. Peer pressure in the form of ridicule keeps people religious as well.
Hey Thomas,

I don't doubt that sarcasm has it's place. But we are "emotional" beings. As you stated above, we bounce ideas off others often to see their reaction. We respond to many stimuli, often in a predictable manner. Many a time I have had an argument with a parent, a friend, christian, and if ever I got out of hand or sarcastic they points I was making were... lost in translation. People hate being insulted.

If you start a "yo mama" joke, you will likely get one in return. Thus losing the focus on what you were debating in the first place. Sarcasm has the same effect. While what you say may be valid and well put together, you will more often than not "appear" or "seem" like an arrogant jerk. While some are completely fine with that, I fail to see what that will successfully accomplish except for those who are already and actively seeking truth to laugh. Which atheism needs no help in that department as it is already a common misconception/stereotype. I can't deny that sarcasm is not popular. We live in a society where more and more people are turning to Comedy Central, SNL, and the Onion for their news feed rather than respectable journalism (if it even entirely exists anymore). Dawkins quote (paraphrasing) on religion being mockable so it should be mocked, has it's place. I, however, don't see the point of it other than maybe pure satire, comedy, or even plain entertainment Big Grin .

Don't get me wrong. I love sarcasm. I think it is an awesome tool for comedy. My favorite comics use sarcasm in their stand-up routines (Eddie Izzard, Jim Gaffigan, and Daniel Tosh). But what is the purpose of debate and argument? Well I'm sure that many have individual goals, but I believe we can come to common ground that their purpose is to work through various statements of supposed truths, accusations, findings, etc in the hopes of demonstrating which side of an issue/question is correct. That means you are debating with people who don't agree with you and probably have presumptions of you, in front of people; some or many of whom disagree with and have presumptions/assumptions of you. So why waste an opportunity for sound argument, fact, and logic to shine for a few laughs and puns, however clever. You might entertain those who already side with you. You may even gain some open minded people that just needed a nudge. But you will often put the attention of the debate towards you and not the issue. You will lose the respect (if any was had) of your opponent as they will most likely attack you instead of the issue. You will lose the interest of many of those who came opposing you. And may possibly lose the confidence from some of those that agree with you.

I think I may have gone to far in my explanation but I hope I came across clearly. Everyone will do as they will and I can't condemn any action that I haven't done myself. But I simply like to rely on cold, hard logic, fact, and a well presented argument in a debate, rather quick witty one-liners. Not saying that's what anyone does or has done, just stating where I'm coming from on this one. Thanks, to anyone who actually has the patience to read my babble. Bowing

And yet another interesting topic I am not interested in.
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13-06-2012, 02:34 AM
RE: So, I've been approved to start teaching in church again.
(12-06-2012 09:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  As HOC said, it is very easy to fall into the category of disliking religion to the point of despising its propagation and/or continued existence. Especially when there are numerous reasons to hate organized religion (like the Catholic church's ban on condoms in Africa and opposition to birth control) and a lot of reasons as yet unmentioned from personal experiences with religion.

It is important to separate the individual from the belief system. I despise religion, but not the individuals who follow religion, just like I despise Conservatives, but not the individuals that follow it. I disagree with most of what religion teaches, but I don't know what you are going to be teaching, which is why I am interested to see. If your sermons are anti-gay, I'm going to be upset, but my guess is that the baptist church you will be teaching at will probably leave hot-button topics like that off of the table so as to avoid controversy.
I agree with this. I believe we must separate the individual from the belief system. If KC were in my neighbourhood, I would gladly share a beer with him ( I'm not sure that he's join me though LOL.)

When good individuals (like KC) do bad things (preach religion) I'm going to object. Doesn't mean I suppress him, or deny his right to preach.
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