So I went to church today...
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16-08-2015, 10:03 AM
So I went to church today...
Quick context, I've only been an atheist for about 6 months and and still in the closet for the most part. My immediate family are devout evangelicals, nd

Anyways, I'm back at my parent's house for a couple weeks before I head back to college, and still being in the closet and all, went to church with them today like a good christian. Trying to be productive of my time, I was reviewing some of the Jewish laws in Deuteronomy that I'm fairly confident had never been covered in that church to remind myself one of the reasons why I am now an ex-evangelical.

Anyways, at some point during the sermon, they played a testimonial video of one of the church members about he she learned how to give up control of her life to God. I figured that this should be interesting, and started to pay attention.

Not surprisingly, the two main points of her testimony made be feel sorry for her, as well as feel anger in regards to the fact that many people are raised to believe this crap that hurts their lives.

the first point concerned the fact that she had a miscarriage during her first pregnancy, and how she had to learn to accept that it was all a part of God's 'perfect will/plan' and was according to his timing. She repeated many times how it was about God's timing, and that for whatever reason, she wasn't supposed to have a baby yet. Everyone in the congregation seemed to think that this made perfectly good sense to them... I'm just trying to work through God's logic from her perspective, where he's thinking 'hmm, well I don't want her to have a baby yet, but instead of, ya know, just not having her become pregnant, I'm going to let her be pregnant, and then have a miscarriage to take care of it, genius!'. The other possibility was, of course the ol' 'you need to trust me more, so I'm going to let you have a miscarriage so you are rely on me for a coping mechanism.'

The second point she made that pissed me off was about giving God control of every part of her life. Basically, she was trying to get control of her career after the miscarriage, and felt that she had a pretty good shot at getting two different job offers from a company, which doesn't sound prideful to me, if she actually was a good candidate for both jobs. But nope! God told her 'who do you think you are for thinking that YOU are good enough to get two job offers on your own? You need my help for that!' How does this make any sense? Why can't someone succeed in this world due to their hard work and skills that they've acquired? Is God so jealous that he must be given credit for everything good that happens to someone in their life?

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but this just pissed me off, and reminded me why I became an atheist in the first place. Oh, and if its not clear, any questions above are rhetorical, and just a part of the rant...
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16-08-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: So I went to church today...
Good logic on your part.

How can anyone believe in a "god" who's so Machiavellian as to put you into a horrid situation, just so he can save you from it????

It's like a firefighter who goes about setting houses on fire, so he can come along and be a "hero".

Good thing this "god" wanker is fictional.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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16-08-2015, 10:35 AM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2015 10:38 AM by cactus.)
RE: So I went to church today...
"I guess I just need to trust in God's plan no matter what. He has direct control over everything, and he's always right."
Ok, cool, got it. God's plan for my life is for me to take a purely empirical approach to my beliefs.
After all, how could God get mad at me for being honest with myself? That's like the best thing I could possibly be, right?
Thanks, God, for making me an atheist, that I may better understand Thy nefarious ways through thoughtful, introspective study of Thy word Cool

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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16-08-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: So I went to church today...
(16-08-2015 10:03 AM)Cozzymodo Wrote:  Quick context, I've only been an atheist for about 6 months and and still in the closet for the most part. My immediate family are devout evangelicals, nd

Anyways, I'm back at my parent's house for a couple weeks before I head back to college, and still being in the closet and all, went to church with them today like a good christian. Trying to be productive of my time, I was reviewing some of the Jewish laws in Deuteronomy that I'm fairly confident had never been covered in that church to remind myself one of the reasons why I am now an ex-evangelical.

Anyways, at some point during the sermon, they played a testimonial video of one of the church members about he she learned how to give up control of her life to God. I figured that this should be interesting, and started to pay attention.

Not surprisingly, the two main points of her testimony made be feel sorry for her, as well as feel anger in regards to the fact that many people are raised to believe this crap that hurts their lives.

the first point concerned the fact that she had a miscarriage during her first pregnancy, and how she had to learn to accept that it was all a part of God's 'perfect will/plan' and was according to his timing. She repeated many times how it was about God's timing, and that for whatever reason, she wasn't supposed to have a baby yet. Everyone in the congregation seemed to think that this made perfectly good sense to them... I'm just trying to work through God's logic from her perspective, where he's thinking 'hmm, well I don't want her to have a baby yet, but instead of, ya know, just not having her become pregnant, I'm going to let her be pregnant, and then have a miscarriage to take care of it, genius!'. The other possibility was, of course the ol' 'you need to trust me more, so I'm going to let you have a miscarriage so you are rely on me for a coping mechanism.'

The second point she made that pissed me off was about giving God control of every part of her life. Basically, she was trying to get control of her career after the miscarriage, and felt that she had a pretty good shot at getting two different job offers from a company, which doesn't sound prideful to me, if she actually was a good candidate for both jobs. But nope! God told her 'who do you think you are for thinking that YOU are good enough to get two job offers on your own? You need my help for that!' How does this make any sense? Why can't someone succeed in this world due to their hard work and skills that they've acquired? Is God so jealous that he must be given credit for everything good that happens to someone in their life?

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but this just pissed me off, and reminded me why I became an atheist in the first place. Oh, and if its not clear, any questions above are rhetorical, and just a part of the rant...

Everyone of these post hoc rationalizations can always be shown to be idiotic, you can always come up with a better scenario than what occurs. God caused a miscarriage for a purpose? How about creating a plan that doesn't involve killing a baby? You think an omniscient god could do a little better than that? Maybe this plan is a little less than "perfect".


That's why I left Christianity, I grew sick of these stupid post hoc rationalizations.

That's why the problem of evil will never go away.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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16-08-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: So I went to church today...
(16-08-2015 10:35 AM)cactus Wrote:  "I guess I just need to trust in God's plan no matter what. He has direct control over everything, and he's always right."
Ok, cool, got it. God's plan for my life is for me to take a purely empirical approach to my beliefs.
After all, how could God get mad at me for being honest with myself? That's like the best thing I could possibly be, right?
Thanks, God, for making me an atheist, that I may better understand Thy nefarious ways through thoughtful, introspective study of Thy word Cool

You'd think that would make sense to Christians However, it is interesting how, when you deny their beliefs, you somehow managed to get outside of God's perfect will, and need to get back in line pronto, before you screw everything up. But wait, we can screw up God's perfect will? How does that work with the whole omnipotence thing. Ugh, the counter arguments against Christianity practically write themselves! One of my favorite example of this comes from people who believe that there is only one person that you are supposed to marry in live, a divinely appoint soul mate if you well. So, if only one person marries the person that there are not supposed to marry, then does that cause a chain reaction where pretty soon everyone is marrying the wrong person? Could explain the high divorce rates that Christian's can't seem to shake...
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16-08-2015, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2015 11:27 AM by cactus.)
RE: So I went to church today...
(16-08-2015 10:56 AM)Cozzymodo Wrote:  One of my favorite example of this comes from people who believe that there is only one person that you are supposed to marry in live, a divinely appoint soul mate if you well. So, if only one person marries the person that there are not supposed to marry, then does that cause a chain reaction where pretty soon everyone is marrying the wrong person? Could explain the high divorce rates that Christian's can't seem to shake...

Since God can see the future, there is no such thing as "the wrong choice." If something happens, then it was predestined, unless it's something that will cause you to give less money to the church, then it's something that goes against God's will, and you are a Satan worshiper who needs to repent for your wrongdoi--oh wait, what's this... you overpaid on your indulgences last time... Hmm, ok, you're not supposed to pre-pay for future sins, but I guess we can let it slide this time. We'll just roll that money over into this sin. I guess you're off the hook this time, but next time, be prepared to pay up, mister, or you'll face the ultimate price, IN HELL! Would you like to set up direct debit for the future? It will make this process go a whole lot quicker. You won't even have to come into the church to confess your sins; you can just do it through our website, where you can live-chat with a priest. We also have our new Insta-Repent app (only $7.99 a month), which lets you access the live chat right from your smartphone or tablet. There's also a handy in-app purchase for a gyroscope feature that will allow you to keep track of your average genuflects-per-day, so you can keep close tabs on your spiritual health.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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16-08-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: So I went to church today...
The last time I went to a CHURCH-church, as in, evangelical circus....

... the message was tithing. Dodgy

So, let's see. You give your life to God, you give your money to the guy on the stage, you give your time to the church...

... feel free to add to this list...
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16-08-2015, 11:52 AM
RE: So I went to church today...
(16-08-2015 11:26 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  The last time I went to a CHURCH-church, as in, evangelical circus....

... the message was tithing. Dodgy

So, let's see. You give your life to God, you give your money to the guy on the stage, you give your time to the church...

... feel free to add to this list...

But you don't understand, its a privilege to be able to tithe! You're totally going to be rewarded for it later when you get to heaven, sort of like a divine 401k plan!
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16-08-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: So I went to church today...
So god caused the miscarriage? Then he's an abortionist.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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16-08-2015, 01:09 PM
RE: So I went to church today...
(16-08-2015 11:52 AM)Cozzymodo Wrote:  
(16-08-2015 11:26 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  The last time I went to a CHURCH-church, as in, evangelical circus....

... the message was tithing. Dodgy

So, let's see. You give your life to God, you give your money to the guy on the stage, you give your time to the church...

... feel free to add to this list...

But you don't understand, its a privilege to be able to tithe! You're totally going to be rewarded for it later when you get to heaven, sort of like a divine 401k plan!

[Image: bill_1.jpg]

#sigh
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