So Why Not?
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06-04-2012, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2012 03:57 AM by Filox.)
RE: So Why Not?
Quote:Why can't all that we currently know for fact (not unproven scientific theory) in science be explained by a god or deity who created all things with apparent age and natural laws governing their continued progression for his purposes?

You can say that God did it all in accordance to the laws of physics and universe, but you still do not have any proof for that, that is just your perspective of the world around you. My perspective is more realistic, less imaginative, so I don't think like that. Every man has different perspective on the world that surrounds us.

As for the "God of Gaps"...

You can not put God in every gap in knowledge, because we don't have the EVIDENCE for God to fill in the gaps. It is as simple as that. If we were to say "it is God", then we can stop exploring how and why something happened. If we say "it was God" and stop exploring, then there is no more progress in a scientific way.

Do you remember that story when man feared lightning and thunder? When they were thinking it was God? If some guy didn't refuse that story and explored how it was made, we would still hide when thunders came and pray to God to spare us.

Do you understand what I am trying to say? We can not contribute something we don't understand YET to God, or else we will never unravel that mystery. Accepting God as explanation takes away new research for proving that explanation, because we already have the explanation; GOD.

Get it? I think it as simple as it can be...

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06-04-2012, 04:28 AM
RE: So Why Not?
I know there are some atheists who seem to feel that there is just absolutely no way in any way shape or form that there ever can be or will be a god. However, by default an atheist is a lack of believe in a god or gods. In this case, I don't believe in one since I don't feel there's any compelling evidence for one.

Does this mean there isn't one? No.
Does this mean there can't be one? No.

Do I think if there is one that it would be the same god that came from the abrahamic religions? Hell no and I sure would hope not.

The problem with trying to identify a god being responsible for creating the universe is a few questions in my book:

- Why is it necessary for the universe to have been created by something?
- Why as humans do we feel the necessity to have a god in the first place?
- WHAT IS god?
- If we must explain that a god created the universe, where did god come from? Why is he/she exempt from the why?

So if we start looking into things, a lot of physicists would tell you that the idea that the big bang happened and the way it happens is not only probable, but extremely likely and is the most compelling argument.

Every year we make more progress on things, explain things more clearly and concise and that bit of information last year that we couldn't explain now has an explanation and reason this year. So what in previous times we may have attributed to a god being we can logically explain with science.

So the question is: "Well, ok, we can explain that with science, but why couldn't that be god?" is what I'm hearing in this thread.

My answer would be.... it could be. But there is nothing to suggest that it is thus far, nor is there any reason to need to explain that it is.

A different approach to this would be: Why do people feel compelled or feel the need to have a god in the equation?

I feel this generally boils down to .... the feeling of a purpose, the explanation of our initial being, answering life's unanswered questions with a divine entity so perfect that searching for those answers need not be explained and above all, feeling that we are so unique and special and that the universe is all created for us instead of a colder reality that we are a cosmic roll of the dice and on a grand scale of things.... very small and if at some point our species becomes extinct, the universe continues rolling on forward as if we were never here.

For some... the reality of such a thing can reach deep down within you and tear at you, harshly. Some people don't want to think of this as a possibility. This begs the question: "Then what's the point of my life? Why live? What's the meaning of life?" but I think a lot of that boils down to.... "I was lied to when I was young. Everything I was taught is wrong. If this is reality, I have to learn this whole thing over again." So be it, we're human. We learn and adapt, such is the circle of life.

This is of course my humble opinion. I'm not a theoretical physicist. I enjoy reading on such subjects. I enjoy trying to answer my own questions which leave me curious on a daily and nightly basis. I have found that in life we have to give ourself a purpose, a meaning. It doesn't have to be just one. I enjoy my family, my wife, my cars. I enjoy making people happy. I enjoy helping others. I realize that hundreds of years now the things I have done may not be remembered, they may be irrelevant and therefore - .... "oh well." but if I only get one shot at life on this rock.... I'm goin to make the best of it.
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06-04-2012, 04:53 AM
RE: So Why Not?
If there ever was any God, if anyone ever proved to me (and all others) that God exists, then that God would have nothing to do with Torah, Bible or Koran, the "God" would be some space alien with tremendous powers. Some people would call him God, I wouldn't. I would call him by the name he/she/it would call itself.

If that was the case, I think of the "God" as Q from Star Trek. That is the only kind of God I could think of, that actually could exist, and alien life form that lives in different dimension and can manipulate and control our dimension (space, time, universe...)

Star Trek has everything covered, why do you ever search for answers anywhere else?

Smile

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_%28Star_Trek%29


Quote:Q is said to be omnipotent, and is continually evasive regarding his motivations. His home, the Q Continuum, is accessible to the Q and their guests, and the true nature of it is said to be beyond the comprehension of "lesser beings" such as humans so it is only shown to humans in ways they can understand.

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06-04-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: So Why Not?
I have been taking some more time to look around the forum and understand the general trend of serious hatred toward the Christian God. If you are one of those who do, why?

Gary
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06-04-2012, 03:50 PM
RE: So Why Not?
Can't hate something that doesn't exist. If you're wondering about the general level of assholery, it could have something to do with all the religious persecution, threats of eternal damnation, malicious slander - that kind of stuff - that your kind has perpetuated over the generations. Maybe.

Maybe I just fucking hate you. Arg! Big Grin

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06-04-2012, 03:51 PM
RE: So Why Not?
(06-04-2012 03:42 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I have been taking some more time to look around the forum and understand the general trend of serious hatred toward the Christian God. If you are one of those who do, why?

Gary
In general, it isn't really a hatred but more a disagreement. I don't really hate it. It's hard to hate something that you don't believe exists. More than anything else it is frustrating to me to see people indoctrinated by stuff that is thousands of years old that they end up becoming insanely rude bigots over and think that everyone else should follow suit.

The other part of this is that people tend to spend a lot of time studying what held them hostage for long, or what they are acquainted with. Statistically speaking, there are probably more atheists on here who previously were christian, than there were who would have been muslim or buddhist, etc...
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06-04-2012, 03:55 PM
RE: So Why Not?
I don't reject the idea that there could be a god, sure, maybe, very unlikely. However, your god is in my honest opinion, is either a complete dick - and in that case I won't worship him even if he does exist, or just not there.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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06-04-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: So Why Not?
(06-04-2012 03:42 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I have been taking some more time to look around the forum and understand the general trend of serious hatred toward the Christian God. If you are one of those who do, why?

Gary
We don't hate God - do you hate the number zero or what it represents? To me God is nothing. We hate the society, the laws, the results of believing that pernicious book the Bible.
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06-04-2012, 05:05 PM
RE: So Why Not?
By the time I'm here pretty much everything has been said. I too can accept that there could be a being, but do not accept any of the attempts at explaining it. I myself don't need to know how it all started. I feel that life can be perfectly good without that knowledge. What is my exact reason in rejecting a religious argument? First and foremost the answer to everything better be pretty convincing. If it's really the answer, then I should be able to explain why it is (as should you). I have to say 42 sounds like a better answer so far=p

As far as aggression towards christianity and it's views, to put it simply I've lived around christianity my entire life. I was indoctrinated into it's world view even without an aknowledgement of it. I spent a while living a godless life in the kind of world where you need god. I had a lot of hardships due to my "deficiency". If it were simply my childhood though, I would've dropped the issue completely long ago. I am many things that your particular culmination of worldviews dislikes. Pretty much everything about me is rejected by your world.

I fight against this, but I'm not someone who is generally aggressive with people. I normally am very willing to discuss things with people. I try to prove my point without forcing my world on people, even if I feel correct on many things I understand that I don't have that something "perfect" that must be explained. The thing that disgusts me most about christianity among other religions, is that there are numerous people saying they have that "perfect" thing.

The real reason I might appear aggressive towards your religion though is quite simple. Up until recently I have lived somewhere where your religion and similar ones constantly made my life harder. Where any discussion of any kind would become a god discussion. When I joined this forum I was pretty agressive with religion since I kept from being so in public. I think a lot of members here do a lot more mockery and jabbing online due to the issue of being stifled in public. The internet will always be a big punching bag =p

A funny thing, 2 months after I joined this site quite a while back I made a thread arguing that the anti christian messages on the site went too far =p It's been a long time since then, and for the most part the group has become (from my view) less condescending. So stick around you may find that we're not as vehement as you currently feel.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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06-04-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: So Why Not?
(06-04-2012 03:42 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I have been taking some more time to look around the forum and understand the general trend of serious hatred toward the Christian God. If you are one of those who do, why?

Gary
We don't hate that which does not exist.
I do despise what religions have done and continue to do to people and societies.
And I am fair-minded and even-handed; all religions are pernicious,and all gods are non-existent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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