So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
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31-08-2015, 09:39 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
(31-08-2015 09:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 08:08 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Supposing the premises...

A transfer of information doesn't strictly require it to be the same (recoverable) information. So, it needn't imply persistence of any given specific collection of discrete observables; only that the interaction within increases entropy on one "side" and decreases it on the other.

My dick is so hard right now. And I'm not even gay.

Word. CJLR's right-on and (typically) concise explanations of scientific principles often have a similar effect on me. Not quite erections, but definitely similar in concept.

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31-08-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
cjlr's a keeper. Girly, however, needs to stop talking about his dick. Angel

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01-09-2015, 07:53 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.



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02-09-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
At this point, nobody knows what actually happens inside the event horizon of a black hole. There are proposals, but they are just that. We know that clocks run slower in a strong gravitational field. We know that (by definition) nothing that crosses the event horizon from the outside can ever come back out. We know that Hawking radiation can result in energy being shed from the black hole, but this happens without anything (particles, energy, or information) crossing the event horizon from inside to outside.

We do not know what happens to information that enters the black hole, and we certainly do not know whether anything (energy, particles, or information) comes out in another universe. We don't even know if other universes exist. That part is all speculation, based on pure thought devoid of evidence. There is as yet no evidence for other universes or for any connection between ours and them via black holes.

Given that we know nothing about what goes on inside a black hole, the last thing anyone should do is give any credence to anything published on the subject in the mainstream media.

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03-09-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
Quote:In my opinion, if anyone who wasn’t named Stephen Hawking had proposed this idea, it would be garnering only a small amount of attention, as the idea itself is not fleshed out enough to be anything more than a spark, or a germ of a possibility. Yes, it’s worth investigating further, but do be aware that most ideas like this turn out to be dead ends. It’s possible that this will turn out to be something special, but until someone actually does the theoretical work all the way through — and Hawking, Perry and Strominger have not — we have no reason to believe this paradox is going away anytime soon.

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06-09-2015, 04:57 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2015 07:21 PM by Free.)
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
I see "Zero Time" in his model.

From the event horizon, each and every point going towards the black hole is a different time, each existing simultaneously, and with time slowing down at each point. The final point is in the center of the black hole, and is frozen. Nothing moves at that point, until ... <--- (fill in the blanks.)

Things can be in two places at once? Yes, but things can also be in billions of places at various points in time, simultaneously.

Nothing is destroyed as it is preserved at each point in time, and also it's frozen at zero time. No information can be lost, ever. Each point in time is like a single frame of a video, with each point showing very slight differences from the effects of time similar to how each frame in a video shows progression of the film.

It's all about gravitational time. If conclusive, time is created by gravitational effect, and cannot exist without gravitational effect. If it was discovered how to manipulate the effects of gravity upon a singular object, that object could be made to vanish from our time, but be frozen in its own "zero time."

If such a frozen object was sentient, 10,000 years could pass in our time, while the object was unaffected. If the object then enabled normal regional gravitational effect, it would reappear 10,000 years into our future with not a single second added to its time in existence.

That's very very cool.

But I see more ...

Gasp

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06-09-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
When the people whose job it is to deal with physics, QM, and cosmology tell us that nobody knows what happens inside a black hole, it's rather silly for people with no education on the matter to speculate. We know from Einstein that there is no such thing as "the same time" in two different places. The math that relates the spacial and temporal relationship between different events is so mind-bogglingly complicated that anything we lay persons say about it is going to be wrong, and likewise, anything we lay persons say about time and space inside a black hole (such as the above post) is going to be wrong. Unless all we say is, Nobody knows.

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el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
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06-09-2015, 07:08 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2015 07:14 PM by Free.)
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
(06-09-2015 07:05 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  When the people whose job it is to deal with physics, QM, and cosmology tell us that nobody knows what happens inside a black hole, it's rather silly for people with no education on the matter to speculate. We know from Einstein that there is no such thing as "the same time" in two different places. The math that relates the spacial and temporal relationship between different events is so mind-bogglingly complicated that anything we lay persons say about it is going to be wrong, and likewise, anything we lay persons say about time and space inside a black hole (such as the above post) is going to be wrong. Unless all we say is, Nobody knows.

Perhaps you should click the link for gravitational time and maybe then you will understand what I am actually saying? It's actually completely compatible with Einstein's special relativity.

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06-09-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
(06-09-2015 07:08 PM)Free Wrote:  
(06-09-2015 07:05 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  When the people whose job it is to deal with physics, QM, and cosmology tell us that nobody knows what happens inside a black hole, it's rather silly for people with no education on the matter to speculate. We know from Einstein that there is no such thing as "the same time" in two different places. The math that relates the spacial and temporal relationship between different events is so mind-bogglingly complicated that anything we lay persons say about it is going to be wrong, and likewise, anything we lay persons say about time and space inside a black hole (such as the above post) is going to be wrong. Unless all we say is, Nobody knows.

Perhaps you should click the link for gravitational time and maybe then you will understand what I am actually saying? It's actually completely compatible with Einstein's special relativity.

You linked to an article about time dilation. I have no idea what you mean by "gravitational time". It doesn't seem to be time dilation.

"Timelessness" implies a lack of interaction, and, indeed, the possibility of interaction. That isn't even meaningful, let alone possible. An atom can't not oscillate; energies can't not fluctuate.

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06-09-2015, 09:55 PM
RE: So help me out here with Hawkins latest Black Hole comments.
(06-09-2015 07:08 PM)Free Wrote:  Perhaps you should click the link for gravitational time and maybe then you will understand what I am actually saying?

Why should I? You're talking about the insides of black holes. Nobody knows what goes on inside a black hole. Therefore nothing anyone says on the matter is anything but meaningless verbiage.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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