So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
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16-09-2014, 07:50 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
Ladies and Gentlemen, i give you The Square Earth Society.

Bow, you filthy heathens!Laughat
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16-09-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(15-09-2014 03:48 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 03:09 PM)ZeroX3 Wrote:  So why do people think the scriptures is reliable again?
Wow.... even in islam this is written someplace i think. But i just dont remember

Isaiah 40:22
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

Job 38:14
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

There are a lot of references for flat earth in the bible, here are a few of my notes:

The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. The word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

Another interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.



Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Are you aware that there are plausible alternatives to your interpretation of these verses? Which hermeneutics tools did you employ to help ensure you are understanding these verses with accuracy?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-09-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 10:09 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you aware that there are plausible alternatives to your interpretation of these verses? Which hermeneutics tools did you employ to help ensure you are understanding these verses with accuracy?

By all means, present your plausible alternatives.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2014, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2014 12:54 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 10:09 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 03:48 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  There are a lot of references for flat earth in the bible, here are a few of my notes:

The phrase of Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is very controversial. The word "circle" means "sphere" indicating that the earth is a sphere. This view seems most unlikely since we have all ready seen that the Hebrew word gh means "circle," and it seems very remote that it means "sphere" because of the context, and there is a better Hebrew word for "sphere," rwd. In Isaiah 22:18 the word rwd is translated "ball." If the LXX translators understood gh as "sphere," they would have used the Greek word sfairoeides. Plugging the meaning of "sphere" into every passage that gh occurs will result in awkward interpretations.

Another interpretation is that the earth is a round flat disk. Although the ancient world thought the earth was round and flat, this phrase seems to refer to the shape the vaulted heavens above the earth from which the inhabitants look like grasshoppers.



Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

corners? no no, sry it is a round sphere....ah, guess the lord and creator wasnt aware of that.

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3
He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:4-6
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth

Are you aware that there are plausible alternatives to your interpretation of these verses? Which hermeneutics tools did you employ to help ensure you are understanding these verses with accuracy?

I used my degree in religious studies, 30 years of studying the myth and a plethora of written work in my private library as this is a passion of mine. Feel free to posit your "plausible alternatives" and we can take a look. I am always open to new or different information, and I don't claim to be the authority on the subject. Far be it, but I have spent some time on it Yes

I usually cite my work, but this wasn't a post where I had used a previously written paper of mine as the basis.

"The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally."

As I am sure you are well aware; If you wish to break down the bible literally, you will quickly find it is the very definition of anthropocentric based pseudepigrapha, and once you sift through the interpolations, parables and allegorical whimsical writings not much is left in which to give serious consideration.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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16-09-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 12:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 10:09 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you aware that there are plausible alternatives to your interpretation of these verses? Which hermeneutics tools did you employ to help ensure you are understanding these verses with accuracy?

I used my degree in religious studies, 30 years of studying the myth and a plethora of written work in my private library as this is a passion of mine. Feel free to posit your "plausible alternatives" and we can take a look. I am always open to new or different information, and I don't claim to be the authority on the subject. Far be it, but I have spent some time on it Yes

I usually cite my work, but this wasn't a post where I had used a previously written paper of mine as the basis.

"The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally."

As I am sure you are well aware; If you wish to break down the bible literally, you will quickly find it is the very definition of anthropocentric based pseudepigrapha, and once you sift through the interpolations, parables and allegorical whimsical writings not much is left in which to give serious consideration.

The Q asked what hermeneutics you employed as you gave no exegesis, context, original language references, etymological cognates, etc. The Q have noted there was no determining of literary allusions or patterns by the "interpreter". The one "interpretation" you offered translates Isaiah as "ball" not "sphere", yet saying the Earth is a "ball" is saying it is a three-dimensional shape other than flat, is it not?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-09-2014, 01:32 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 01:06 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 12:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I used my degree in religious studies, 30 years of studying the myth and a plethora of written work in my private library as this is a passion of mine. Feel free to posit your "plausible alternatives" and we can take a look. I am always open to new or different information, and I don't claim to be the authority on the subject. Far be it, but I have spent some time on it Yes

I usually cite my work, but this wasn't a post where I had used a previously written paper of mine as the basis.

"The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally."

As I am sure you are well aware; If you wish to break down the bible literally, you will quickly find it is the very definition of anthropocentric based pseudepigrapha, and once you sift through the interpolations, parables and allegorical whimsical writings not much is left in which to give serious consideration.

The Q asked what hermeneutics you employed as you gave no exegesis, context, original language references, etymological cognates, etc. The Q have noted there was no determining of literary allusions or patterns by the "interpreter". The one "interpretation" you offered translates Isaiah as "ball" not "sphere", yet saying the Earth is a "ball" is saying it is a three-dimensional shape other than flat, is it not?

Speaking in the third person? How charmingly arrogant. Consider

He showed that elsewhere in Isaiah the word for ball was used, to contrast that with the word for circle in the passage he quoted.
You appear to have misunderstood rather badly.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
You'd think the all-know and all-powerful author would've had the wherewithal to give the Israelites a word for "oblate spheroid". That'd've been a little more compelling...

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16-09-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 01:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You'd think the all-know and all-powerful author would've had the wherewithal to give the Israelites a word for "oblate spheroid". That'd've been a little more compelling...

He didn't deem it important. Sort of like how telling them "pork is unclean" was a good-enough stop gap as opposed to saying "pork might contain parasites. Cook it thoroughly".

I find it telling that all of the scientific breakthroughs God revealed in the Bible have been surpassed by people in the past thousand years. It's almost like he's telling use we don't need him anymore...Consider
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16-09-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 01:58 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 01:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You'd think the all-know and all-powerful author would've had the wherewithal to give the Israelites a word for "oblate spheroid". That'd've been a little more compelling...

He didn't deem it important. Sort of like how telling them "pork is unclean" was a good-enough stop gap as opposed to saying "pork might contain parasites. Cook it thoroughly".

I find it telling that all of the scientific breakthroughs God revealed in the Bible have been surpassed by people in the past thousand years. It's almost like he's telling use we don't need him anymore...Consider

We might, as an example, consider the verses in Job regarding the position and motion of the stars, which some latter-day apologists will tell you hint at gravity. Perhaps; but if so, then the hint is such that not even Newton - true-believing Biblical obsessive Newton, who articulated the first general theory of gravity - suggested, anywhere, ever, that his physical and mathematical inspiration had anything to do with scripture.

Naturally the same holds true for literally every verse ever held up as "scientific". A revelation which is only ever apparent in retrospect is no revelation at all, and the sort of "divine inspiration" leading to it is completely indistinguishable from desperate post-hoc anomaly hunting confirmation bias.

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16-09-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
If somewhere within the Bible, I were to find a passage that said the earth is flat, I wouldn't question what I'm reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and then do my best to work it out and understand it.
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