So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
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16-09-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 02:38 PM)wazzel Wrote:  If somewhere within the Bible, I were to find a passage that said the earth is flat, I wouldn't question what I'm reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and then do my best to work it out and understand it.

We really, really need that irony/sarcasm font. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 02:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 02:38 PM)wazzel Wrote:  If somewhere within the Bible, I were to find a passage that said the earth is flat, I wouldn't question what I'm reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and then do my best to work it out and understand it.

We really, really need that irony/sarcasm font. Dodgy

That would help.
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16-09-2014, 03:32 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2014 03:52 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 01:06 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 12:50 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I used my degree in religious studies, 30 years of studying the myth and a plethora of written work in my private library as this is a passion of mine. Feel free to posit your "plausible alternatives" and we can take a look. I am always open to new or different information, and I don't claim to be the authority on the subject. Far be it, but I have spent some time on it Yes

I usually cite my work, but this wasn't a post where I had used a previously written paper of mine as the basis.

"The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally."

As I am sure you are well aware; If you wish to break down the bible literally, you will quickly find it is the very definition of anthropocentric based pseudepigrapha, and once you sift through the interpolations, parables and allegorical whimsical writings not much is left in which to give serious consideration.

The Q asked what hermeneutics you employed as you gave no exegesis, context, original language references, etymological cognates, etc. The Q have noted there was no determining of literary allusions or patterns by the "interpreter". The one "interpretation" you offered translates Isaiah as "ball" not "sphere", yet saying the Earth is a "ball" is saying it is a three-dimensional shape other than flat, is it not?

Blink

yeeeeeeah sorry bub, I have no desire to enter word salad games with you. Full time active duty military officer, fitness geek, full time college student working on my 4th degree, wife and 4 kids....so if you have a solid point refuting my posit, bring it, if you have supportive information bring it, if you believe the world is flat......nothing I can do for you on that, if you want to get into semantics or play quote the philosopher, not worth my time to be honest. Even as hyper as I am, I only do a drive by on the forum when i can. You would have gotten along great with our last troll jeremy, he loved word salad and circular reasoning of applying semantics to logic...but sadly he got banhammered. Perhaps one of our other fine members who perhaps has more time to devote to your musings can entertain you.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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16-09-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(15-09-2014 09:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Clearly God made the earth spherical, long after the bible was written, so that Christopher Columbus could discover America. Had God allowed the earth to remain fiat, which it undoubtedly was prior to Christopher Columbus, then there would have been no Mormons.

Did Columbus himself belief the earth was flat? I just want to be clear on where you guys stand on that specifically.

Also, if it is "undoubtedly" true that people believed in a flat earth prior to Christopher Columbus, then is there a way you can show me the historical records of anyone in Europe believing in a flat earth?

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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16-09-2014, 07:47 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(15-09-2014 03:09 PM)ZeroX3 Wrote:  So why do people think the scriptures is reliable again?
Wow.... even in islam this is written someplace i think. But i just dont remember

Isaiah 40:22
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.

Job 38:14
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.

Islam idk. The Quran ( Sura Az-Zumar 89:5) says that planetary bodies have orbits. Also Islam was last bastion of astronomy during medieval ages.

Not that that's what's important, granted.
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16-09-2014, 08:01 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2014 08:53 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
Hermeneutics is complete (waste of time) bullshit, (except for the chapter on Herman Munster).
What isn't bullshit, is Archaeology. We know for a fact what people in the ancient Near East thought the Earth looked like, as there are artifacts that demonstrate it.
[Image: 200px-Baylonianmaps.JPG]

Scholars know what Hebrew cosmology looked like :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology
[Image: OTcosmos.jpg]

It was COMPLETELY totally WRONG.
Even as late as the Second Century, in "Against Heresies" (the Church Father) Irenaeus says there should only be four gospels, because, "Four are the winds, and four ARE THE PILLARS upon which the Earth stands."

The Presupposition of *hermaneutics*, is the crap idea that there really is a "proper" way to read and interpret scripture. In other words, "Which PREJUDICE *should* you bring to a text ?" LMFAO.

"Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the *principles of interpretation* of the Bible. While Jewish and Christian biblical hermeneutics have some overlap, they have distinctly different interpretive traditions."

"Augustine offers hermeneutics and homiletics in his "De Doctrina Christiana. He stresses the importance of humility in the study of Scripture. He also regards the duplex commandment of love in Matthew 22 as the heart of Christian faith. In Augustine’s hermeneutics, sign has an important role. God can communicate with the believer through the *signs* of the Scriptures. Thus, humility, love, and the knowledge of *signs* are an essential hermeneutical presupposition for a sound interpretation of the Scriptures."

Deuteronomy 18:10 "Let no one be found among you who ... who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft"
Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a *sign*, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
Heh heh.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-09-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 07:35 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 09:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Clearly God made the earth spherical, long after the bible was written, so that Christopher Columbus could discover America. Had God allowed the earth to remain fiat, which it undoubtedly was prior to Christopher Columbus, then there would have been no Mormons.

Did Columbus himself belief the earth was flat? I just want to be clear on where you guys stand on that specifically.

Also, if it is "undoubtedly" true that people believed in a flat earth prior to Christopher Columbus, then is there a way you can show me the historical records of anyone in Europe believing in a flat earth?

Nah, I'm full of shit actually Tongue. By then it was fairly well accepted within what you might call the scientific community of the time that the earth was round. There is also mounting evidence that merchants from around the world were visiting the Americas as something like a secret trade route long before Columbus. For those without first hand experience or any kind of education (most of the population), the shape of the earth might have been debated. But not by anyone with a clue.

There is an interesting book called "Unearthing Ancient America" that discusses some of the various controversial Archeological findings, controversial meaning they contradict much of what many Americans (across the American continents, not just US) have always taken as fact.

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17-09-2014, 01:32 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(17-09-2014 12:24 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 07:35 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Did Columbus himself belief the earth was flat? I just want to be clear on where you guys stand on that specifically.

Also, if it is "undoubtedly" true that people believed in a flat earth prior to Christopher Columbus, then is there a way you can show me the historical records of anyone in Europe believing in a flat earth?

Nah, I'm full of shit actually Tongue. By then it was fairly well accepted within what you might call the scientific community of the time that the earth was round. There is also mounting evidence that merchants from around the world were visiting the Americas as something like a secret trade route long before Columbus. For those without first hand experience or any kind of education (most of the population), the shape of the earth might have been debated. But not by anyone with a clue.

There is an interesting book called "Unearthing Ancient America" that discusses some of the various controversial Archeological findings, controversial meaning they contradict much of what many Americans (across the American continents, not just US) have always taken as fact.

The Globe was invented the same year Columbus set sail. The proving the earth was round thing was wholesale created by Washington Irving for his book "The Life and Adventures of Christopher Columbus".

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-09-2014, 09:13 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
The ancient Greeks knew the earth was round roughly 1700 years before Columbus, and even calculated its approximate size. But then we had the Dark Ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
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17-09-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 07:47 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  Islam idk. The Quran ( Sura Az-Zumar 89:5) says that planetary bodies have orbits. Also Islam was last bastion of astronomy during medieval ages.

Not that that's what's important, granted.

Yes, but even with a geocentric flat-earth, the planets (literally wandering stars) must have "orbits" (literally apparent circular paths). The reference alone means nothing.

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