So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
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18-09-2014, 02:04 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(18-09-2014 01:45 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is a disingenuous misstatement of what I said.

Try again.

You are claiming one statement is figurative and one statement is fact, right? On what basis do you pick and choose? If I say, "What a beautiful sunrise I saw today as the sun came over the horizon," would you accuse me of not understanding the facts of celestial orbits?

We know for a fact those cultures did not understand celestial orbits. Your analogy is demonstrably false.

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18-09-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(18-09-2014 02:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 01:45 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are claiming one statement is figurative and one statement is fact, right? On what basis do you pick and choose? If I say, "What a beautiful sunrise I saw today as the sun came over the horizon," would you accuse me of not understanding the facts of celestial orbits?

That is not what I am claiming.

I am claiming one is literal, the other is metaphor and that it is obvious from the context. People are not pillars and people do not hold up the earth.

When one believes something to be fact and writes that down, that is literal. Doesn't make it true.

Perhaps you would do what the first person I interacted with would not do, and demonstrate the context, choosing one or two of the verses you say is not poetic and a statement of fact about the earth?

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18-09-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(18-09-2014 03:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 02:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what I am claiming.

I am claiming one is literal, the other is metaphor and that it is obvious from the context. People are not pillars and people do not hold up the earth.

When one believes something to be fact and writes that down, that is literal. Doesn't make it true.

Perhaps you would do what the first person I interacted with would not do, and demonstrate the context, choosing one or two of the verses you say is not poetic and a statement of fact about the earth?

I said statement of belief about the earth, not fact.

The context is Job describing the power of God, what God is able to do to the world. Job is not being metaphorical.

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18-09-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(18-09-2014 03:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 02:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is not what I am claiming.

I am claiming one is literal, the other is metaphor and that it is obvious from the context. People are not pillars and people do not hold up the earth.

When one believes something to be fact and writes that down, that is literal. Doesn't make it true.

Perhaps you would do what the first person I interacted with would not do, and demonstrate the context, choosing one or two of the verses you say is not poetic and a statement of fact about the earth?

Metaphorical or not, it's irrelevant. We know humans wrote the texts, and then many centuries argued about them, and then non-unanimously VOTED them into a "canon", which is still not agreed upon today. Their authority is not demonstrated, no matter what the form of literature one is asserting they are. Timothy said (before there was a canon) that "all scripture was 'god breathed' ". So ANY "holy book" is as good as another, apparently

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19-09-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(18-09-2014 03:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 03:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Perhaps you would do what the first person I interacted with would not do, and demonstrate the context, choosing one or two of the verses you say is not poetic and a statement of fact about the earth?

I said statement of belief about the earth, not fact.

The context is Job describing the power of God, what God is able to do to the world. Job is not being metaphorical.

Job 9 provides literal facts of what God is able to do in the world? So, God "overturns" mountains (Job 9)? God "tramples down the ocean waves"? God "sets a seal upon the stars"? And you are sure Job 9 is literal language and not poetic? Have you ever watched as a mountain was overturned? Are you saying that the Bible writers saw a mountain turned upside down? Do you see why most learned Christians, who know and are familiar with the "earth is flat in Bible verses argument" parse some of the Bible as poetry?

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19-09-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(19-09-2014 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 03:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  I said statement of belief about the earth, not fact.

The context is Job describing the power of God, what God is able to do to the world. Job is not being metaphorical.

Job 9 provides literal facts of what God is able to do in the world? So, God "overturns" mountains (Job 9)? God "tramples down the ocean waves"? God "sets a seal upon the stars"? And you are sure Job 9 is literal language and not poetic? Have you ever watched as a mountain was overturned? Are you saying that the Bible writers saw a mountain turned upside down? Do you see why most learned Christians, who know and are familiar with the "earth is flat in Bible verses argument" parse some of the Bible as poetry?

Job doesn't have to have witnessed any of it to be able to attribute that power to God. There is no reason to believe Job is not being literal.

However, Job didn't actually exist. It is the writer(s) who are being literal.

However, if you want it to be poetic, then have at it. It just means that absolutely nothing in the Bible can be assumed to be literal, and I'm fine with that.

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19-09-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 07:35 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 09:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Clearly God made the earth spherical, long after the bible was written, so that Christopher Columbus could discover America. Had God allowed the earth to remain fiat, which it undoubtedly was prior to Christopher Columbus, then there would have been no Mormons.

Did Columbus himself belief the earth was flat? I just want to be clear on where you guys stand on that specifically.

Also, if it is "undoubtedly" true that people believed in a flat earth prior to Christopher Columbus, then is there a way you can show me the historical records of anyone in Europe believing in a flat earth?

Hey man, nice to see you back!

Here is some further reading on the flat earth theory from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

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20-09-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(19-09-2014 11:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-09-2014 10:06 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Job 9 provides literal facts of what God is able to do in the world? So, God "overturns" mountains (Job 9)? God "tramples down the ocean waves"? God "sets a seal upon the stars"? And you are sure Job 9 is literal language and not poetic? Have you ever watched as a mountain was overturned? Are you saying that the Bible writers saw a mountain turned upside down? Do you see why most learned Christians, who know and are familiar with the "earth is flat in Bible verses argument" parse some of the Bible as poetry?

Job doesn't have to have witnessed any of it to be able to attribute that power to God. There is no reason to believe Job is not being literal.

However, Job didn't actually exist. It is the writer(s) who are being literal.

However, if you want it to be poetic, then have at it. It just means that absolutely nothing in the Bible can be assumed to be literal, and I'm fine with that.

Are you saying that if the writers of Job 9 are literal, they are not merely deluded about a flat earth, but believe that mountains can overturn? Is that a strong stance to take in a public debate?

On the other hand, if you are saying Job 9 is poetic, if I understand you correctly, based on Job 9 only, you are insisting the entire Bible is non-literal? Is that a strong academic position to take in literary criticism?

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13-07-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(16-09-2014 01:58 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 01:40 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You'd think the all-know and all-powerful author would've had the wherewithal to give the Israelites a word for "oblate spheroid". That'd've been a little more compelling...

He didn't deem it important. Sort of like how telling them "pork is unclean" was a good-enough stop gap as opposed to saying "pork might contain parasites. Cook it thoroughly".

I find it telling that all of the scientific breakthroughs God revealed in the Bible have been surpassed by people in the past thousand years. It's almost like he's telling use we don't need him anymore...Consider

no
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13-07-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: So if scriptures teaches that the earth is flat as a pancake
(13-07-2016 12:40 PM)genericamerican22 Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 01:58 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  He didn't deem it important. Sort of like how telling them "pork is unclean" was a good-enough stop gap as opposed to saying "pork might contain parasites. Cook it thoroughly".

I find it telling that all of the scientific breakthroughs God revealed in the Bible have been surpassed by people in the past thousand years. It's almost like he's telling use we don't need him anymore...Consider

no

You revived a nearly two-year old thread to just say 'no'? That does not bode well.

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