Poll: Are you progressive, do you think most here are and do you think conservatives may be uncomfortable here?
I identify as progressive, I think most people here are also progressive and yes I do think conservatives probably feel uncomfortable sharing their political views here.
I identify as progressive, I think most people here are also progressive but I doubt if conservatives actually feel uncomfortable sharing their political views here.
I identify as progressive but I doubt if most people here are also progressive and regardless I doubt if conservatives feel uncomfortable about sharing their political views here.
I identify as progressive but I doubt if most people here are also progressive and regardless conservatives probably do feel uncomfortable about sharing their political views here.
I identify as conservative but I think most people here are progressive, and I do in fact feel uncomfortable sharing my political views here.
I identify as conservative but I think most people here are progressive, and I at least do not feel uncomfortable sharing my political views here.
I identify as conservative but I don't think most people here are progressive, and I do in fact feel uncomfortable sharing my political views.
I identify as conservative but I don't think most people here are progressive, and I at least do not feel uncomfortable sharing my political views.
[Show Results]
 
So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-06-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 01:58 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 01:44 PM)JesseB Wrote:  And yes dehumanization is also a part of it, but when you make such blanket encompassing statements it certainly sounds to me like you are in fact dehumanizing them, and in fact to an extent me with how you've been responding.

So you're feeling dehumanized? Maybe I should agree with you more or say that I think that all views are worthy of hearing and respect?

Not respecting or despising someone isn't the same as dehumanizing someone. I'm not calling those who disagree with me subhumans. I just lack respect for them (read them as those who oppose certain of my views).

Quote:It's not a facade of kindness I do in fact like you and respect your thoughts and im genuinely attempting to be kind to you.

I doubt it. Or you have interesting way of showing someone that you like him - unwarranted mentions of dictators or dehumanization.

Well this is going way off topic, I think I fully justified where I was going with mentioning dictators and it wasn't an accusation, again my concern is you present yourself as very authoritarian and that bothers me, I've stated my reasons why that bothers me fairly clearly. I don't think you're listening at all to anything I have to say at this point however.

And not respecting someone is very different than hating detesting or despising someone. Not respecting them is OK, I don't respect those Ideas OR the people who think/say those ideas either. However I do not go so far as to despise them unless of course they were to take a page from Hitlers book and start doing harmful things. Now I kinda get that you may consider inaction in this case action, after all until euthanasia becomes legal people will continue to suffer and your stated goal in this is to reduce needless suffering, on that point I totally get you, but again I think hating people or detesting them is going a bit far and is counter productive to your cause, if you want to end the needless suffering sooner then the most efficient way is to find common ground to reach out to them, convince them of your position and make the change as quickly as possible. If you opt for the other option which is to force it upon everyone well then you'll find me opposed and I'll prolly end up dead which is something I've mentioned before IS a valid concern with ANY authoritarian. It's not that I'm saying you are arguing that point it's that I'm saying what you say could go in that direction and you've made no effort to suggest you wouldn't go in that direction. I'm not saying you should agree with or say other peoples points are valid if you don't agree with them, but with any more authoritarian minded people I prefer some assurances that you aren't thinking of forcing and violating others rights to enact your position. Again my concern is clear and we seem to be talking around it to go to the points you want to claim I'm making when I'm not.

NOW seeing as this is getting way off topic this is the last I will say on the issue, I'll only respond to stuff regarding the OP from here on out, if you'd like to take this elsewhere I don't really mind I guess but I fail to see any productive value in continuing if you aren't willing to at least try to see my point of view on this.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-06-2017, 02:21 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 01:58 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  [/spoiler]
(29-06-2017 01:44 PM)JesseB Wrote:  And yes dehumanization is also a part of it, but when you make such blanket encompassing statements it certainly sounds to me like you are in fact dehumanizing them, and in fact to an extent me with how you've been responding.

So you're feeling dehumanized? Maybe I should agree with you more or say that I think that all views are worthy of hearing and respect?
[/spoiler]
Not respecting or despising someone isn't the same as dehumanizing someone. I'm not calling those who disagree with me subhumans. I just lack respect for them (read them as those who oppose certain of my views).


Not addressed to me but I'll tell you why I'm exploring this approach myself. In the last US presidential election I was so surprised to see so many vote for Trump in spite of his making so many blunders and exposing himself to be a really vile human being. So either I have to accept that 35 to 40 percent of the population are horrible human beings with really contemptible intentions, or else I have to work harder to appreciate their point of view. That is the goal in this for me. The moral foundations schema seems to offer some hope. Now of course, some of that 35 to 40 percent of the population actually are vile human beings. Trump for example is just a failure at human-ing. But I can't accept that all the rest are just as vile.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes whateverist's post
29-06-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
I'm center right progressive/liberal.

I can see that in USA they don't seem to have much to choose from politically. It's either far right religious nutto, science denials, or center left with unions, minimum wage, affirmative action stuff.
Due to the religious nutto stuff I think USA atheists probably tend towards the Dems so they are center left. This forum's largest group is the USA atheists so the tendency of this forum is center left, socialist views.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Stevil's post
29-06-2017, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2017 02:28 PM by JesseB.)
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
@Whateverist

Personally I think hate leads to things like slavery/segregation, hate leads to things like genocide, hate leads to war, hate is dehumanizing and that specifically is what I object to when I encounter it. I actively choose to try and never be a hateful person. It serves no purpose other than self gratification, it can solve no problems and can only lead to negative things like death and suffering.

I have no need for hate in my life.

I get angry, I get pissed, I get annoyed I feel the full range of feelings a human can feel. All humans SHOULD feel all emotions I think, it's quite healthy. But hate isn't an emotion, hate is a choice to harbor and foster and nurture the most negative emotions to suck the anger in and hold it close at all times until all rational thought, and eventually even all positive emotions are gone and only the hate remains.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JesseB's post
29-06-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 02:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Well this is going way off topic, I think I fully justified where I was going with mentioning dictators and it wasn't an accusation,

Of course you think you're fully justified and it certainly wasn't accusation.

Quote:again my concern is you present yourself as very authoritarian and that bothers me, I've stated my reasons why that bothers me fairly clearly. I don't think you're listening at all to anything I have to say at this point however.

At this point I think that you're spouting paranoid crap about forum users who decide that they're 100% right so they force their ways on world.

Quote:And not respecting someone is very different than hating detesting or despising someone.

Did I wrote something about hate or it is you who try to push words in my mouth? If I recall correctly I only spoke about lack of respect and despising.

Quote:Not respecting them is OK, I don't respect those Ideas OR the people who think/say those ideas either. However I do not go so far as to despise them unless of course they were to take a page from Hitlers book and start doing harmful things.

I decide what's OK for me, so opposing euthanasia which only leads to further suffering isn't okay. Opposing abortion which force women into seeking it illegally also isn't okay. Not to mention suffering that unwanted children will probably experience - that also isn't okay. I see no reason for respecting people who value their convictions higher than well-being of others.

Quote:Now I kinda get that you may consider inaction in this case action, after all until euthanasia becomes legal people will continue to suffer and your stated goal in this is to reduce needless suffering, on that point I totally get you,

As far as I remember I spoke about opposition, not inaction.

Quote:but again I think hating people or detesting them is going a bit far and is counter productive to your cause, if you want to end the needless suffering sooner then the most efficient way is to find common ground to reach out to them, convince them of your position and make the change as quickly as possible.

It's you who wrote about hate, not I (as far as I remember). And I don't really have a cause, I'm not political activist.

Quote:If you opt for the other option which is to force it upon everyone well then you'll find me opposed and I'll prolly end up dead which is something I've mentioned before IS a valid concern with ANY authoritarian.

You're simply delusional.

Quote:It's not that I'm saying you are arguing that point it's that I'm saying what you say could go in that direction and you've made no effort to suggest you wouldn't go in that direction. I'm not saying you should agree with or say other peoples points are valid if you don't agree with them, but with any more authoritarian minded people I prefer some assurances that you aren't thinking of forcing and violating others rights to enact your position. Again my concern is clear and we seem to be talking around it to go to the points you want to claim I'm making when I'm not.

Your "concern" is just being paranoid and convinced of your own importance. Even if I were to become dictator (and that's funniest shit I heard since ever) you think I would care about you? Random dude on internet forum? I would have country to run and backstabbing comrades to deal with. You're like a theist with this one - one imagines Lord of all creation being interested in him and other...

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-06-2017, 02:37 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 02:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 02:09 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Well this is going way off topic, I think I fully justified where I was going with mentioning dictators and it wasn't an accusation,

Of course you think you're fully justified and it certainly wasn't accusation.

Quote:again my concern is you present yourself as very authoritarian and that bothers me, I've stated my reasons why that bothers me fairly clearly. I don't think you're listening at all to anything I have to say at this point however.

At this point I think that you're spouting paranoid crap about forum users who decide that they're 100% right so they force their ways on world.

Quote:And not respecting someone is very different than hating detesting or despising someone.

Did I wrote something about hate or it is you who try to push words in my mouth? If I recall correctly I only spoke about lack of respect and despising.

Quote:Not respecting them is OK, I don't respect those Ideas OR the people who think/say those ideas either. However I do not go so far as to despise them unless of course they were to take a page from Hitlers book and start doing harmful things.

I decide what's OK for me, so opposing euthanasia which only leads to further suffering isn't okay. Opposing abortion which force women into seeking it illegally also isn't okay. Not to mention suffering that unwanted children will probably experience - that also isn't okay. I see no reason for respecting people who value their convictions higher than well-being of others.

Quote:Now I kinda get that you may consider inaction in this case action, after all until euthanasia becomes legal people will continue to suffer and your stated goal in this is to reduce needless suffering, on that point I totally get you,

As far as I remember I spoke about opposition, not inaction.

Quote:but again I think hating people or detesting them is going a bit far and is counter productive to your cause, if you want to end the needless suffering sooner then the most efficient way is to find common ground to reach out to them, convince them of your position and make the change as quickly as possible.

It's you who wrote about hate, not I (as far as I remember). And I don't really have a cause, I'm not political activist.

Quote:If you opt for the other option which is to force it upon everyone well then you'll find me opposed and I'll prolly end up dead which is something I've mentioned before IS a valid concern with ANY authoritarian.

You're simply delusional.

Quote:It's not that I'm saying you are arguing that point it's that I'm saying what you say could go in that direction and you've made no effort to suggest you wouldn't go in that direction. I'm not saying you should agree with or say other peoples points are valid if you don't agree with them, but with any more authoritarian minded people I prefer some assurances that you aren't thinking of forcing and violating others rights to enact your position. Again my concern is clear and we seem to be talking around it to go to the points you want to claim I'm making when I'm not.

Your "concern" is just being paranoid and convinced of your own importance. Even if I were to become dictator (and that's funniest shit I heard since ever) you think I would care about you? Random dude on internet forum? I would have country to run and backstabbing comrades to deal with. You're like a theist with this one - one imagines Lord of all creation being interested in him and other...

That last bit made me laugh I'll admit, thanks for that.

I don't think it's delusional I honestly don't know how much you swing towards authoritarian. However I'll take by this response you don't swing that far.

Finally, and perhaps this is the crux of the issue. As far as I'm aware despising someone and hating them are the same thing.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-06-2017, 02:41 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 02:21 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Not addressed to me but I'll tell you why I'm exploring this approach myself. In the last US presidential election I was so surprised to see so many vote for Trump in spite of his making so many blunders and exposing himself to be a really vile human being. So either I have to accept that 35 to 40 percent of the population are horrible human beings with really contemptible intentions, or else I have to work harder to appreciate their point of view. That is the goal in this for me. The moral foundations schema seems to offer some hope. Now of course, some of that 35 to 40 percent of the population actually are vile human beings. Trump for example is just a failure at human-ing. But I can't accept that all the rest are just as vile.

It's quite possible that said 35 to 40% of population are horrible humans beings. Given the fact that numbers of starving people is counted in hundreds of millions I would risk a claim that we all are horrible, some just hide it better or are less horrible than others.

But here's what you miss - being horrible now does not mean that one can't change. It's not fucking destiny to be a bigot but mix of circumstances, education, peer pressure, etc. People can change.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
29-06-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
I don't think anyone here would be surprised to hear me say that I'm pretty damn liberal.

I think there are a lot of liberals here, and even more libertarian (non-authoritarian) liberals. I'm pretty much center between authoritarian and libertarian, and I'm far left/liberal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Emma's post
29-06-2017, 02:47 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 02:37 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I don't think it's delusional I honestly don't know how much you swing towards authoritarian. However I'll take by this response you don't swing that far.

Being pro-choice, pro euthanasia and pro drugs, that is things which wouldn't be forced but only chosen I would say that I'm kinda far from authoritarianism.

Quote:Finally, and perhaps this is the crux of the issue. As far as I'm aware despising someone and hating them are the same thing.

Just checked the dictionary, it seems they are. Checked polish dictionaries - here these word aren't synonymous. Despise is about having very low opinion about someone.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Szuchow's post
29-06-2017, 02:49 PM
RE: So is this site also predominantly progressive rather than conservative politically?
(29-06-2017 02:47 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 02:37 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I don't think it's delusional I honestly don't know how much you swing towards authoritarian. However I'll take by this response you don't swing that far.

Being pro-choice, pro euthanasia and pro drugs, that is things which wouldn't be forced but only chosen I would say that I'm kinda far from authoritarianism.

Quote:Finally, and perhaps this is the crux of the issue. As far as I'm aware despising someone and hating them are the same thing.

Just checked the dictionary, it seems they are. Checked polish dictionaries - here these word aren't synonymous. Despise is about having very low opinion about someone.


I think I then can stand in full agreement with you, I'm glad we could come to an understanding. It's one of the things I really have always respected about you.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: