So it's impossible.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-10-2013, 08:35 AM
So it's impossible.
It's impossible to debate a theist. I was talking to a friend yesterday and: Angry.
AngryAngry
AngryAngryAngry

It was the shifting of the burden of proof. I tried to explain...no I DID explain the null hypothesis and the position of atheism. My friend kept saying that "obviously you're gonna have people that are atheist because they're not willing to search the scriptures. They're not willing to go out and find the existence of god."

To which I said "It's not the atheist's job to do that. We are not making the claim for or against gods. We are merely rejecting what is being claimed right now ". This was met with "great story bro Thumbsup but scripture must be revealed to the reader. Scripture is not for everyone. "

My response was: Weeping.

The conversation went on to how the book of revelations actually foresaw the coming of Islam and that there would be many terrorists from that group. My response was "Your interpretation is very biased. The prophesies are applicable at any point in human history. The bible says that there will be a decline in morality. When was this not true in the entire spectrum of human history? Bible prophecy is simple retrospective reinterpretation."

Then the conversation descended to you can't trust the peer review process of science. This is because you can't really know what the motives for the review committee are. They could have ulterior motives. This is when I should've said peace out I'm done, but I continued. Because I'm stubborn and tenacious beyond beliefUndecided. You will all be spared.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like BlackMason's post
29-10-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
Are you still friends then? Big Grin

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 08:54 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
(29-10-2013 08:35 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  It's impossible to debate a theist. I was talking to a friend yesterday and: Angry.

Id have to agree, I thought i had my m8, on why does god wait 5 days to rescue a child getting abused.
Apparently its the work of the devil until god steps in, i've never heard him mention the devil before today, He must have worn out the mysterious ways line.

I have to say the fact he believes in Satan, freaks me out more than God.
most christians don't think theres a devil, or they never mention it.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
These are all tropes that many theists have been taught from a young age to spout as the "answer" to specific arguments, without really having delved into the questions. They trust some apologist who says they have looked into the issue and that they found the answer. The apologist explains the answer and from a theistic viewpoint without further knowledge the answer seems to make sense. Prompt. Answer. Prompt. Answer. Easy. That's a debate, right?

More interesting is when you delve into specific claims. Don't hop around different topics trying to find some chink in their armor. When they answer you with their rote answer, try digging into it. "How do you know?" "Where did you hear that?" "If that is true, what about...?".

For example,
Scripture must be revealed. So when do you expect it to be revealed to me? What verses would you like to share with me? I'd be happy to share some with you as well. Perhaps some you don't hear so often in church.
Have you been through the peer review process? Have you heard specific cases of fraud or hidden agendas? What were the details of those cases?
etc

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 09:57 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
(29-10-2013 08:35 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  My friend kept saying that "obviously you're gonna have people that are atheist because they're not willing to search the scriptures. They're not willing to go out and find the existence of god."

Silly Mason, don't you know you're supposed to give up all this notion of reality and rationality when you're reading a work of FICTION? It's called suspension of disbelief. Only Christians don't just read the Bible and believe it while they're engrossed in the tale: they pack that shit up and take it everywhere.

I remember having legitimate questions about even the beginning of the Bible when I was a very small child. Things like, "Well, if God knew everything was going to be so bad, why didn't he just start over after Eve and Adam sinned?" and was met with answers such as "Well, that's just something you'll have to ask him when you get to heaven." Laugh out load


(29-10-2013 08:35 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  Then the conversation descended to you can't trust the peer review process of science. This is because you can't really know what the motives for the review committee are. They could have ulterior motives.

Oh, Jesus-titty-fucking-Christ (to borrow a phrase from Tartarus). Dodgy Does he not think that the folks involved in the Council of Nicea probably had ulterior motives as well? From my understanding, they just chose what was currently popular with the churchgoers and pastors.

(29-10-2013 08:54 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I have to say the fact he believes in Satan, freaks me out more than God.

most christians don't think theres a devil, or they never mention it.

Well, Baptists at least believe in the devil. If the "word of God" says it, you'd best believe it. Bible literalists, Baptists, and I'm ashamed to say I was once one of 'em. Silly Escape Artist. No

Anyway, I hope some of what I've said here makes sense. I'm always semi-afraid to post anything in the more serious sections of this forum, afraid that I might say something that's not completely factual and that I'm mixed up on, but the only way to learn is to try, so...

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
(29-10-2013 09:57 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  I'm always semi-afraid to post anything in the more serious sections of this forum, afraid that I might say something that's not completely factual and that I'm mixed up on, but the only way to learn is to try, so...

It is more foolish to be afraid of being foolish. Thumbsup

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes sporehux's post
29-10-2013, 11:12 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
I think belief in the devil is spooky too. I know people who seriously believe that the devil possesses people. What a life - always looking over your shoulder because you think evil is stalking you. Suspecting him in other people. I know someone who seriously believes that Obama is the incarnation of the devil and here to finish off Christians and install Sharia law.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
I feel your pain - why do we even bother most of the time? I do get a charge out of asking questions that provoke no logical answers. When my BS meter pegs out to the max I just can stop digging at them with the "why would you..?" type questions. I was fine discussing the topic with a couple of JW guys that stopped by my house last Saturday until the 6000 year old earth came up. Converstation over guys - hit the bricks! I only get really "militant" I guess with people I am closer with like my inlaws. Many dinners have been hijacked by a comment and the resulting arguments. Oh well, it is my duty to call out BS when i sees it sometimes. I wish I can handle things with Richard Dawkin's grace, but they just don't listen!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 11:22 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
Not true. I've had many successful debates with many atheists here.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: So it's impossible.
(29-10-2013 11:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Not true. I've had many successful debates with many atheists here.

That's because you are willing to have an actual discussion and not just retreat into "lalalala God did it" every time you are asked a question. Most people are not smart enough/have not thought out their metaphysics enough to do so. This is true of most things. Politics for example once you get past the talking points most people have not thought out the reason they are a member of the party they are part of.

As to the OP never debate a theist in private, it is excruciating and will usually benefit no one. You can discuss with your friend but don't try to change his mind. Doesn't work that way. Simply ask questions eventually they will either retreat or realize they do not have the answer. It can take years for this to happen so don't expect to have a brand new Atheist in 1 session. In public the debate is not for your opponent but for the audience. Stay calm and rational and let the people watching, most of whom have some doubts and insecurities, realize that religion is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors designed by the powerful to keep the weak in line.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: