So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
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30-10-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 10:22 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Re: Science: "something is basically a fact until it's not and the process starts over"

Um, yeah, that's what Science is. So basically, just believe everything at face value that an ancient book is telling you. Why not do the same things with the Vedas from Hinduism or The Egyptian Pyramid Texts?

The bible has never been disproven by fact

It has several times over via science, history, archaeology.

Atheists twist things in the bible to mean what they want

That is what Christians do. Going against mainstream scholarly research and relying on what is written in the pages of a magical book--that is twisting things to mean what you want.

Atheists are atheists because they don't want to be held to a higher standard.

I'm an atheist because after researching the Bible I don't believe it to be the word of a deity. I don't feel this way about any of the other religious texts I've read either. I'm an atheist because I want to live to a higher standard than what is found in the Bible with a genocidal, tyrannical God.

The prophecy of tyre is true

There are many prophecies in the Bible that never came true. If you have a book the size of the Bible, a few things could end up coming to fruition just naturally. Why didn't all prophecies come true if the Bible is true, why only a handful? Also, "prophecies" were often written in after the fact.

Jewish people take prophecy out of context to show Jesus isn't the messiah

No. That is what Christians are doing to try and show Jesus is the messiah. From aish.com

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

Also, it is *their* book, so I think Jews know what they are talking about when they say they were not referring to Jesus Wink

I love your answers, mind if I quote you? I'll probably mash all answers together and send them back. But the thing about it being their book is exactly what I said. That blew my mind
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30-10-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:21 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 12:54 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I thought the prophecy of Tyre didn't come true. I thought the prophecy was that Nebuchadnezzar was supposed to completely destroy Tyre but this never happened. Tyre was under siege for like 10 years or so by good old Neb but it was never destroyed. Alexander the Great partially destroyed it a couple centuries later but it was built back and is a thriving city today. This all disproves the prophecy. Prophecies are stupid anyway so it's all a moot point.

Exactly. I don't get how they can claim this is a true prophecy.

The guy the prophecy said would do the job failed to do more than to take the less-defended outskirts (inland part) of the town, which was rebuilt after the siege lifted.

The fortress was taken by Alexander but, despite the claim of the prophecy that it would be forever a barren rock, it actually became a better place to live because the causeway added to the land area. It's quite a lovely little peninsula, today:

[Image: Tyre-satellite.jpg]

Now, Christians like to point out that the ruins of the part of Tyre that was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar remains rubble to this day... but as you can see from the satellite photo, that is not even close to the majority of the city, and that far from being "a barren rock" and "a place for fishermen to dry their nets", the ruined part is actually a historically preserved site within the thriving urban perimeter.

There are several ways I've seen them try to justify the prophecy (some even claim that Alexander's destruction of the city was part of the same prophecy, under the many nations like waves bit), some more ludicrous than others. Suffice it to say that you'll never convince them that this is a failed prophecy, because you can squint and turn your head sideways and read it however you want, and that makes it a True Prophecy™ after all. Wink

I pointed out all of the different reason to him why this was not true. To me he is bending the bible. He also called it a place to dry nets.. He said God was pretty accurate
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30-10-2016, 02:30 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
Also if I search for ways the bible is disproven is it easy to find? I don't mind searching over asking unless someone wants to put some thoughts out there. In my final response to him I am going to tell him that there's going to be no changing of minds and there's no need to keep going back and forth
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30-10-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:24 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 10:22 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Re: Science: "something is basically a fact until it's not and the process starts over"

Um, yeah, that's what Science is. So basically, just believe everything at face value that an ancient book is telling you. Why not do the same things with the Vedas from Hinduism or The Egyptian Pyramid Texts?

The bible has never been disproven by fact

It has several times over via science, history, archaeology.

Atheists twist things in the bible to mean what they want

That is what Christians do. Going against mainstream scholarly research and relying on what is written in the pages of a magical book--that is twisting things to mean what you want.

Atheists are atheists because they don't want to be held to a higher standard.

I'm an atheist because after researching the Bible I don't believe it to be the word of a deity. I don't feel this way about any of the other religious texts I've read either. I'm an atheist because I want to live to a higher standard than what is found in the Bible with a genocidal, tyrannical God.

The prophecy of tyre is true

There are many prophecies in the Bible that never came true. If you have a book the size of the Bible, a few things could end up coming to fruition just naturally. Why didn't all prophecies come true if the Bible is true, why only a handful? Also, "prophecies" were often written in after the fact.

Jewish people take prophecy out of context to show Jesus isn't the messiah

No. That is what Christians are doing to try and show Jesus is the messiah. From aish.com

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

Also, it is *their* book, so I think Jews know what they are talking about when they say they were not referring to Jesus Wink

I love your answers, mind if I quote you? I'll probably mash all answers together and send them back. But the thing about it being their book is exactly what I said. That blew my mind

Sure Wink
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30-10-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:21 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(30-10-2016 12:54 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I thought the prophecy of Tyre didn't come true. I thought the prophecy was that Nebuchadnezzar was supposed to completely destroy Tyre but this never happened. Tyre was under siege for like 10 years or so by good old Neb but it was never destroyed. Alexander the Great partially destroyed it a couple centuries later but it was built back and is a thriving city today. This all disproves the prophecy. Prophecies are stupid anyway so it's all a moot point.

Exactly. I don't get how they can claim this is a true prophecy.

The guy the prophecy said would do the job failed to do more than to take the less-defended outskirts (inland part) of the town, which was rebuilt after the siege lifted.

The fortress was taken by Alexander but, despite the claim of the prophecy that it would be forever a barren rock, it actually became a better place to live because the causeway added to the land area. It's quite a lovely little peninsula, today:

[Image: Tyre-satellite.jpg]

Now, Christians like to point out that the ruins of the part of Tyre that was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar remains rubble to this day... but as you can see from the satellite photo, that is not even close to the majority of the city, and that far from being "a barren rock" and "a place for fishermen to dry their nets", the ruined part is actually a historically preserved site within the thriving urban perimeter.

There are several ways I've seen them try to justify the prophecy (some even claim that Alexander's destruction of the city was part of the same prophecy, under the many nations like waves bit), some more ludicrous than others. Suffice it to say that you'll never convince them that this is a failed prophecy, because you can squint and turn your head sideways and read it however you want, and that makes it a True Prophecy™ after all. Wink

Farrell Till wrote a really good article on the Tyre Prophecy:

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/tsrmag/992tyre.html
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30-10-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
Tell him to shove his fucking bible up his ass.

You get no where trying to be reasonable with such fools.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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30-10-2016, 02:38 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:36 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Tell him to shove his fucking bible up his ass.

You get no where trying to be reasonable with such fools.

Or better yet, tell him to come here and we'll roast him over a spit...er...talk to him in the Casual Coffeehouse Drooling Evil_monster
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30-10-2016, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2016 02:57 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:30 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  Also if I search for ways the bible is disproven is it easy to find?


As easy as using Google. Here is example: https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...a-contest/

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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30-10-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:30 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  Also if I search for ways the bible is disproven is it easy to find? I don't mind searching over asking unless someone wants to put some thoughts out there. In my final response to him I am going to tell him that there's going to be no changing of minds and there's no need to keep going back and forth

Skeptics Annotated Bible is great at sectioning out various areas ("science," history, cruelty, violence, etc.) in the Bible. It's available online.
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30-10-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: So remember when that teacher gave me a book to read..
(30-10-2016 02:26 PM)Jewelarcher Wrote:  I pointed out all of the different reason to him why this was not true. To me he is bending the bible. He also called it a place to dry nets.. He said God was pretty accurate

Yeah, except it's no more a "place to dry nets" than every other harbor-city on the entire rest of the Mediterranean coast. And it's certainly not a "barren rock", forever, as stated by the prophecy.

He's the one twisting words and ignoring part of the prophecy. Prophecy isn't "sling a bunch of mud at the wall and see what parts stick". Either you knew in advance everything that was going to happen, or you didn't. They quote the parts that work and ignore the parts that clearly, clearly fail.

And even if some ancient "prophet" had correctly predicted, in his angry rant against the King of Tyre, that the rampaging conqueror Nebuchadnezzar would be the first military force to be successful against Tyre's little island fortress... it still doesn't mean that there was some divine agent feeding Ezekiel the future-predicting information. Sadly, Nebuchadnezzar didn't actually conquer the island, and knocking out the mainland (less-defended) part of the city is irrelevant in terms of such a prediction. It's pretty much the opposite of "accurate". It's a strong prediction that is inaccurate if read literally, and must be read pretty vaguely to even remotely be called confirmed.

An ACCURATE prediction would be "Nebuchadnezzar will besiege your city for a decade, but never manage to overwhelm your fortress, and will withdraw having only destroyed the mainland part of the settlement. Later, in a few hundred years, a Macedonian will come along and do what Nebuchadnezzar tried and failed to do. After that, though, your city will be rebuilt except for some ruins of the old, mainland city, which will be preserved for posterity."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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