So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
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21-09-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:53 AM)Obie Wrote:  So I'm getting the feeling that atheist websites are the same. They all share the same presumptions that if it cannot be located and observed then it can't exist?

Is that rational?

It's pointless. Hagelin's a flake. You're looking kind of flaky yourownself. If your views cannot withstand ridicule, you probably need some new views.

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21-09-2015, 08:04 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:59 AM)Obie Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 07:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  From polls and threads on the past, this place with many of it's posters tend to be higher in the weak/agnostic-atheist category. There are of course some strong atheists and members here of the theists & of other proclamations.

For whatever reason or another this is the case. My conclusion though not definitively a great assessment, is that it is the case due to often a skeptical based nature of this atheist community here connected via the podcast/community type approach by this website(though plenty here have no connection to it and are merely here for it being an atheist forum)

I'm receiving the push back I expected. If I were to flat out tell everyone they are wrong, it would of course earn me a quick exit. Some positions are the product of long evolution and gaining subtle insight through soul maturation and extensive experience. I find knee jerk responses to be as pedantic and the fundamental religious arguments which are but blind assertions. But then , this is my first day, so I'll take it slowly and with many grains of salt. Thanks.

I'm new here too and the "push back" your experiencing has nothing to do with the forum members. It's simply the skeptical nature of most atheists/agnostics as ClydeLee pointed out. Not many minds in this category will be changed with anything short of extraordinary evidence.
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21-09-2015, 08:04 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:59 AM)Obie Wrote:  But then , this is my first day, so I'll take it slowly and with many grains of salt. Thanks.

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21-09-2015, 08:05 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:53 AM)Obie Wrote:  ...
There are videos on youtube by Dr John Hagelin, a quantum physicist, supporting this.
...

Seems like a nice guy.

Reminds me of the Newton-alchemy thing.

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21-09-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 08:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 07:53 AM)Obie Wrote:  ...
There are videos on youtube by Dr John Hagelin, a quantum physicist, supporting this.
...

Seems like a nice guy.

Doesn't mean he's not a flake. Tongue

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21-09-2015, 08:11 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:53 AM)Obie Wrote:  ... They all share the same presumptions that if it cannot be located and observed then it can't exist? Is that rational?

No one here claims that because something cannot be detected it can't exist. Scientific discovery is all about finding things no one has ever seen before.

But absent detection there is no rational basis for making any claim about its characteristics, one of which is existence.

This means of course that if the universe houses things that cannot be detected we'll never know anything about them, including whether they exist. When someone claims that such and such is undetectable and will always be undetectable yet asserts that such and such has particular characteristics, that's the opposite of being rational.
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21-09-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:12 AM)Obie Wrote:  Are there any weak atheists here?

I don't claim any title or category. I would submit that human consciousness survives the body, remains localized, continues evolving, and transits in and out of form continuously, as does everything else in this universe.

I prefer to call myself a rationalist.

The last website I joined, last year, would have none of it, and I ended up getting kicked off the site when I suggested a guy avoid my threads. I lasted a week. I found, all in all, that some atheists can be as provincial and pedantic as the stock religious types.

My submission is that the phenomenal is the tip of the iceberg and that the metaphysical underpins all observable reality. Certain people thought I was foolish.

My background is in the quantum mechanics of consciousness as promulgated by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Finally, all theistic religions are tragically false. There is no knowable form of any type of god. If there were, it would be known and accepted as the same thing on a wholesale level. Such a thing doesn't exist. If there were a god, it would not be a function of belief. It would be a common reality. There would be no need for any religions.

Further, to know that a god exists requires foreknowledge of what that god is - that we can identify it when we come in contact with it. Foreknowledge is an impossibility. Ergo: even if there were a god, we could not know it.

We have quite the diverse make up of members here, including several theists. We have some reeeeeealy special people as well.....but I wouldn't worry about being banned. Banning here is when one clearly violates the rules, spam posts huge walls of texts from some other website, or refuses to respond and discuss to threads they post, and instead do more spam pasting. Outside of that, you should be fine. We even have a couple outright crazies...but as long as they follow the rules, they remain. Welcome, whatever your worldview may be.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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21-09-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
Hello! Big Grin
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21-09-2015, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 08:35 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:34 AM)Obie Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 07:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Quote: "I would submit that human consciousness survives the body, remains localized, continues evolving, and transits in and out of form continuously, as does everything else in this universe.

I prefer to call myself a rationalist."

It's interesting you put these two contradictory statements in this order.

.....

Rational means accepting what is knowable, testable, observable.

Any existence past death is none of these.

I'm glad you find it interesting.

I don't expect you to catch up over night or soon, for that matter.

So what percent of this site is hard atheism? The kind of mindset that disavows the possibility for the continuation of consciousness?

Okay. Two things first.

1) Most of us are agnostic atheists, what you might call "weak" atheists. We lean hard towards the non-existence of any god, but unlike strong atheists allow for the possibility. (Personally I'm an ignostic. I need a precise definition before I can take a position. Define what counts as a god, and I might be a strong or weak atheist depending on whether your definition is self-contradictory.)

2) The question you're really trying to ask is about skepticism, not atheism. You can have hard atheists accepting the idea of a post-mortem consciousness, and weak atheists arguing hard against it.... that's not the way to bet, but it's certainly possible. The hard/soft atheism question technically has nothing to do with what you're talking about. Skepticism is about subjecting new or outre ideas to rigorous and sometimes adversarial examination, working through implications to find contradictions, examining their foundations for flaws, demanding evidence rather than just argument, and ultimately seeing if they pass the proving grounds required for them to rank among things worth believing in. Most of us (who aren't theists looking to interact with and/or troll us heathens) ARE skeptics, and so you can expect a skeptical examination of your ideas.

That said, so long as you observe forum rules (which aren't really restrictive, but frown on spamming links to your website, *cough*) you won't get banned no matter how much of a douchebag you are. ... as several examples unfortunately illustrate.

[EDITTED to remove link from quoted text, because a mod did that in the original post between me hitting the reply button and me actually posting.]
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21-09-2015, 08:36 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2015 10:08 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:53 AM)Obie Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 07:38 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  I don't know what percentage of the forum is "hard atheist", but I can tell you that if you hope to have a chance at all to convince anyone of anything, you need to look up the definition of "scientific evidence" and stop posting Woo about black holes being the origin of consciousness. Drinking Beverage

So I'm getting the feeling that atheist websites are the same. They all share the same presumptions that if it cannot be located and observed then it can't exist?

Is that rational?

Depends....we can sit around the campfire and make up "wouldn't it be cool if a god existed" BS theories all night but in the end it is just a bunch of humans exercising their individual expressions of neurological flatulence. Without evidence, it is only a thought exercise....a pontification of philosophical musings....where do we draw the line? I posit that Norrg, the purple unicorn being who created the universe and all life in it resides inside hollow Uranus....you posit a 6th dimension exists...someone else asserts that the Great Pumpkin is truly the first Cause.....point of it is........?

Without evidence, it doesn't exist, if it does than we don't know of it, thus to us, it doesn't exist. Whether or not it exists outside of our ability to detect it is a moot point....dancing down the road of Make-shit-up Blvd isn't the litmus test to finding the truth now is it?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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