So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
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30-09-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(30-09-2015 07:29 AM)Obie Wrote:  How ironic that the only civilized sort whom I can discourse with on an atheist website is a theist. It speaks volumes. I invite you to be the first person to heed my invitation to go to YouTube and search Dr. John Hagelin Consciousness Part 1 and invest 11 minutes of your life listening to a very suucinct summation of what I speak. I am not a devotee of anyone or of anything. The quantum mechanics of consciousness is appealing to me at this time and in my place of consciousness. Yes, I would submit that theism is pure fantasy, but I also submit that hard atheism blindly discards all hints of an abiding unity and cohesiveness throughout creation. What I have gleaned from this website is the commonalities atheists share with fundamental believers in their reactive revulsion of reasonable constructs that challenge their global understandings. I share experiences in which other people were present and to anything and everything I post I get a summons for proof. I could share what my 16th Birthday party was like and the first response would be for proof. Thank you.

It seems to me that Dr. Hagelin is trying to illustrate how each person’s individual perception colors the world in which they live, and he expands on this by suggesting that those thoughts impact the entire universe. I’ve heard nuggets of this notion being discussed in science circles, especially if he’s suggesting that the universe is all in our heads. I would agree with his view on principle. Our thoughts DO affect the world around us, but I believe that they’re thoughts as expressed in action and not thoughts alone.

It’s interesting that he draws a connection between thoughts as wave patterns to the wave patterns that we more traditionally think of as “physical” such as those produced by the tiny particles that make up the universe. I guess I never thought of it like that. Being so young in my own scientific education, I can’t immediately see why they can’t share similar qualities.

To be perfectly honest, there were aspects of his talk that resonated with me from previous science lectures that I’ve attended…. And there were aspects that didn’t. While I am impressed with his credentials, I have to be careful not to blindly believe what he says based on his credentials alone. Just because he has a PhD from Harvard doesn’t mean that he’s not nuts; it remains unknown to me.

I liked that the video was straight forward and that he was presenting a case without attempting to “sell” me on it. Although this was only an introduction to the topic, I thought Dr. Hagelin did a good job of presenting his position and backing it up with explanations that spoke to my level. Even if I disagree with some of his conclusions, I can at least appreciate his approach.
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30-09-2015, 08:43 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
You didn't comment on his main assertion that everything is consciousness expressing and that consciousness and the unified field are one in the same. But I commend you on your very objective and balanced review. Which brings up the obvious question as to what you are doing on this website.
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30-09-2015, 08:43 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
Obie, you said...
"How many people here would tolerate what I've tolerated? Having their honesty, their intentions, their intelligence, and their credibility challenged every inch of the way? It would scare me if I were among so many people who acted and behaved in such perfect synchrony."

Now you have an inkling of what many openly secular persons experience every day. In a majority of cultures, theism is ubiquitous - it is expected and is often lawfully enforced.

People here only request that you provide objective evidence for your claims. I think Commonsensei said it; your claims can not be disproved (which is completely fine) but, you have also not provided anything which can be substantiated as evidence that there might be proof, even if that proof comes in the distant future.

Things (chemical reactions) that happen in the brain effect the way one perceives everything. If you and I were in a room meditating and you had your experience of levitating at that very moment, would I perceive this experience also? Would I witness this experience? Or would it only be your experience?

If you are trying to state that this personal experience is the result of, or tied into some exterior phenomena then, I would have to think you are putting the cart before the horse. Show me the evidence of this experience, then I will look at the possibility of some exterior phenomena.
***

It appears to me that you have expectations. Your expectations are of no concern to any one but yourself.

You say...
"Has no one here have anything left to experience or to learn?"

Well, there's always you. You might learn to keep subjectivity separate from objectivity. Keep wishful thinking (your expectations) separate from reality. You might learn to keep your expectations within the realm of your personal experience ... or at least be ready to have them scrutinized by a skeptical public.

I have no problem with anything you believe or perceive. None of it has any relevance in anyone's reality except yours.

***
To be clear, and not that my personal habits are any of your concern or indeed, carry any weight, I have meditated for decades. That should mean nothing to you or anyone. I don't have expectations that give relevance (or import) to my personal shit. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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30-09-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(30-09-2015 08:43 AM)Obie Wrote:  You didn't comment on his main assertion that everything is consciousness expressing and that consciousness and the unified field are one in the same. But I commend you on your very objective and balanced review. Which brings up the obvious question as to what you are doing on this website.

Hmmm... I may have misunderstood the main point because I thought I did answer it. My perception is that Dr. Hagelin was saying that thought alone impacted the universe, but I maintain that only thought, as expressed through action, can impact the universe. Perhaps when I take quantum physics I will change my position. For now, though, I can't see how thought alone impacts the universe, even if I can grasp the idea that thought waves can be seen as being similar to waves from physical objects.

Why am I on this website? I came because I wanted to interface with atheists who are not from a Jewish background (my own background). -I think I like the atheists; I like their approach to things, I like their outlook, and their skepticism. I may stay for awhile.
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30-09-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(30-09-2015 08:43 AM)Obie Wrote:  You didn't comment on his main assertion that everything is consciousness expressing and that consciousness and the unified field are one in the same.

There is nothing to comment on.

It is baseless assertion, and collapses on its face.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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30-09-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(21-09-2015 07:12 AM)Obie Wrote:  My background is in the quantum mechanics ...

You keep saying that. Could you explain what the hell this means? I don't get it.
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There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-09-2015, 07:16 PM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
Obie list your claims and present your evidence for each claim.

I wrote a book.
It's a common claim. Nothing extra ordinary about the claim. People could believe me or not based on the idea that it's something a human being is capable of doing. Freakin libraries are full of books people have written.

I can provide a link to my book but that still doesn't prove i wrote it.
https://m.facebook.com/kindredlives

I can also claim that I can modify that page or the content of the book online.
I can demonstrate this claim fairly effectively by altering any part of it on request.

I can make a video of me altering it and post that video. In this day and age any kind of physical claim that can be demonstrated can easily be put on youtube as a first step in justifying your claim.

So i say again, state your claims and then provide some evidence to back up those claims.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-09-2015, 07:26 PM
So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
I would love to comment, but it feels more like Obie is talking at people and not with people.
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01-10-2015, 03:56 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(30-09-2015 07:26 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I would love to comment, but it feels more like Obie is talking at people and not with people.

That's because that is exactly what he/she/it is doing.

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01-10-2015, 04:04 AM
RE: So, tell me, is this place mainly strong atheism?
(01-10-2015 03:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(30-09-2015 07:26 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I would love to comment, but it feels more like Obie is talking at people and not with people.

That's because that is exactly what he/she/it is doing.

Yep.

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