So tired of Christians
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28-03-2017, 04:31 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 04:22 AM)SYZ Wrote:  G'day mate, and welcome. Smile

If you accept (presumably?) that the Abrahamic god exists, then by my definition, you're a "Christian".

Thus, I'm not quite sure how you differentiate yourself from other Christians who you describe as hypocritical, arrogant, judgmental, and self-righteous. Can you assure us that you're none of those things?

I must have told people on christian forums a dozen times that I don't call myself a Christian anymore because it associates me with them, and I don't want to be associated with them. I'd rather be called a pistian or simply a believer. I don't go to church anymore because all I hear is badmouthing others in the faith. The fundamentalist are the worse. I have NOTHING good to say about them. The SDA'S aren't much better. They condemn people for going to church on Sunday, and actually believe "the mark of the beast" is a national Sunday law!

I don't associate with Christians. My cousin is a pastor obsessed with himself because he has a doctorate. I can't stand Him. I hadn't seen him in 35 years and he had NOTHING good to say about me.

I don't judge the followers of any peaceful religion or anyone who claims atheism. I could care less if someone is a Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, or Atheist. I have the right to judge a religion who kills people on a daily basis in the name of their god when their holy books (Koran and the Hadith) encourages and promotes it!

I have a good friend who's a geologist and an atheist and I love the guy. He knows where I stand. He may even be a member here. I'll have to ask him.

Christians typically don't like me and that's alright with me. I don't like the religion, and I especially don't care for Christians. Want to hear some horror stories? Then maybe you'd understand.
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28-03-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 06:24 AM)LadyDay Wrote:  Hi there.

Welcome to the forum.
There are a few beloved theists here. What they do right is to not preach. And to generally be humble and friendly. They don't regard themselves as above others or righteous.
This forum is welcoming to theists, but also have people who use it as a safe space away from religious people, who have hurt them badly in the past and present. I am an ex Christian myself, and it doesn't take much for religion to make me feel uncomfortable or anxious. So please keep that in mind.
We get a lot of people here who come with the intention of preaching to or convert atheists. This is very much not welcome and it makes everybody a bit wary of theists.
There is also people here who love to debate theists. On a good day I am more than happy to myself, though I haven't done it much on this forum. If you enter into debates, be prepared for people to attack your views in a direct fashion.

Otherwise, you'll find that people here are incredibly friendly and will want you to feel welcome and participate. Smile

Thanks for a kind reply and I like your advice. I'm not really here to debate, because you would be surprised how much I do agree with non-theist. I don't want to debate evolution or Atheism, I know it would do no good and that's not my field of expertise. I fully understand why people are non-theist. CHRISTIANS INSPIRE ATHEISM AND THAT IN A NUT SHELL IS WHY I'M HERE! I'm done with them!
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28-03-2017, 04:55 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 08:19 AM)Emma Wrote:  Hi and welcome!

This sort of "Christian" behavior is what drove me from Christianity too. First from the church, which provided me enough space to eventually separate my own thoughts from the dogma. I did a ministry school program after high school, which went on for 2 years. It was intense and super fun the first year. The second year the sheen wore off. I began to resent the authority wielded over me, and the push for the leap of faith that the pastor/program leader advised (I didn't have money for the tuition the second year, but the pastor said that God would provide. Eventually, after half a year of my being hounded about it, a distant family member on my step-mom's side stepped in and paid the balance), and I also resented the false sense of community I felt. The others had deep meaningful friendships and even romantic relationships bloom in the program, but I felt weak, angry, and broken afterward- with my passion for the faith burned away.

After the program, and going back home for half a year, I decided to move back to the town where the ministry took place. Because I really liked Florida, and Maine was too damn cold in the winter. I took a job with the same church's maintenance team. The others, my friends, who had gone on to another year of the ministry school, held me at arm's length. They didn't want to be my friend- I guess they felt it was pathetic for me to come back but not be in the program. Later that year, the pastor of the church berated me because he felt that I had not done a good enough job cleaning up the leaves from the sidewalk of the church building (leaves that had blown back onto the sidewalk after it was cleaned up). That was kind of the last straw for me.

I got another job and eventually moved on in my life, but not without several arguments and confrontations with former friends from the ministry program over the next several years.

Now I feel like the program was cultish. But mixed in with all of that was an awareness for the way Christians treated each other and others in the church. Those who gave the most money were treated the best. The church essentially catered to them. They bought a community for themselves. Everyone else is left to fight over the scraps of community left over. It's not different than life outside of the church bubble, except that with my friendships outside, I have a better idea of where I stand. My friends are better people, even though some are themselves Christians, I feel like I know what to expect from them more. Of course not all Christians are bad people. But the church communities become so easily toxic. And don't even get me started on how hypocritical they are on a political level.

Anyway... welcome again! LOL. I hope you enjoy your stay here. You're not the only one with rants against the churches out there! Laugh out load

Hi Emma,
WOW! I'm not the only one HUH? My experiences are just as bad, maybe worse.

I really like what you said here...

Quote:The others had deep meaningful friendships and even romantic relationships bloom in the program, but I felt weak, angry, and broken afterward- with my passion for the faith burned away.

I won't pummel you with my array of bad experiences, but I'll tell you one. I wonder to this day why I didn't dump Christianity back then.

... In 1978 I moved to California. I went to this Church and kind of liked it. At the time, I was married with three young children and was working full time, and may have been in school at that time too. I don't remember. The church had 4 buses. They knew I was a diesel mechanic and asked me if I could maintain and repair the buses which I accepted. I told the pastor I would be there on Saturdays to make repairs and maintain them etc. at no charge. There was one bus with an obsolete engine in it that had a bad piston. I spent many hours successfully repairing it. I was there every Saturday for 3 months and by that time, I had gone through every bus and felt comfortable about their safety and condition. So I took a Saturday off. The following Saturday I returned to the church to check the buses. Before I began, the pastor came out and asked me in his office. He said, "I WANT YOU TO TAKE YOUR TOOLS HOME WITH YOU AND NOT RETURN. YOU SAID YOU'D BE HERE EVERY SATURDAY AND YOU WEREN'T HERE LAST SATURDAY." I was devastated. Here I am a young man in my 20's trying to do good and that's what I get? So I left the church and didn't return or go back to any church for over 2 years until I returned back to NH.

I'm getting more red stars by the minute! Is there any way of changing the color to green or blue, red isn't one of my favorite colors.
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28-03-2017, 05:04 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 04:55 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 08:19 AM)Emma Wrote:  Hi and welcome!

This sort of "Christian" behavior is what drove me from Christianity too. First from the church, which provided me enough space to eventually separate my own thoughts from the dogma. I did a ministry school program after high school, which went on for 2 years. It was intense and super fun the first year. The second year the sheen wore off. I began to resent the authority wielded over me, and the push for the leap of faith that the pastor/program leader advised (I didn't have money for the tuition the second year, but the pastor said that God would provide. Eventually, after half a year of my being hounded about it, a distant family member on my step-mom's side stepped in and paid the balance), and I also resented the false sense of community I felt. The others had deep meaningful friendships and even romantic relationships bloom in the program, but I felt weak, angry, and broken afterward- with my passion for the faith burned away.

After the program, and going back home for half a year, I decided to move back to the town where the ministry took place. Because I really liked Florida, and Maine was too damn cold in the winter. I took a job with the same church's maintenance team. The others, my friends, who had gone on to another year of the ministry school, held me at arm's length. They didn't want to be my friend- I guess they felt it was pathetic for me to come back but not be in the program. Later that year, the pastor of the church berated me because he felt that I had not done a good enough job cleaning up the leaves from the sidewalk of the church building (leaves that had blown back onto the sidewalk after it was cleaned up). That was kind of the last straw for me.

I got another job and eventually moved on in my life, but not without several arguments and confrontations with former friends from the ministry program over the next several years.

Now I feel like the program was cultish. But mixed in with all of that was an awareness for the way Christians treated each other and others in the church. Those who gave the most money were treated the best. The church essentially catered to them. They bought a community for themselves. Everyone else is left to fight over the scraps of community left over. It's not different than life outside of the church bubble, except that with my friendships outside, I have a better idea of where I stand. My friends are better people, even though some are themselves Christians, I feel like I know what to expect from them more. Of course not all Christians are bad people. But the church communities become so easily toxic. And don't even get me started on how hypocritical they are on a political level.

Anyway... welcome again! LOL. I hope you enjoy your stay here. You're not the only one with rants against the churches out there! Laugh out load

Hi Emma,
WOW! I'm not the only one HUH? My experiences are just as bad, maybe worse.

I really like what you said here...

Quote:The others had deep meaningful friendships and even romantic relationships bloom in the program, but I felt weak, angry, and broken afterward- with my passion for the faith burned away.

I won't pummel you with my array of bad experiences, but I'll tell you one. I wonder to this day why I didn't dump Christianity back then.

... In 1978 I moved to California. I went to this Church and kind of liked it. At the time, I was married with three young children and was working full time, and may have been in school at that time too. I don't remember. The church had 4 buses. They knew I was a diesel mechanic and asked me if I could maintain and repair the buses which I accepted. I told the pastor I would be there on Saturdays to make repairs and maintain them etc. at no charge. There was one bus with an obsolete engine in it that had a bad piston. I spent many hours successfully repairing it. I was there every Saturday for 3 months and by that time, I had gone through every bus and felt comfortable about their safety and condition. So I took a Saturday off. The following Saturday I returned to the church to check the buses. Before I began, the pastor came out and asked me in his office. He said, "I WANT YOU TO TAKE YOUR TOOLS HOME WITH YOU AND NOT RETURN. YOU SAID YOU'D BE HERE EVERY SATURDAY AND YOU WEREN'T HERE LAST SATURDAY." I was devastated. Here I am a young man in my 20's trying to do good and that's what I get? So I left the church and didn't return or go back to any church for over 2 years until I returned back to NH.

I'm getting more red stars by the minute! Is there any way of changing the color to green or blue, red isn't one of my favorite colors.

Yeah, that experience would leave me soured as well. Holy shit some people don't realize the sacrifice that others make for them. Especially in the church, it quickly goes from volunteer to expectation.
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28-03-2017, 05:07 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 05:04 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 04:55 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  Hi Emma,
WOW! I'm not the only one HUH? My experiences are just as bad, maybe worse.

I really like what you said here...


I won't pummel you with my array of bad experiences, but I'll tell you one. I wonder to this day why I didn't dump Christianity back then.

... In 1978 I moved to California. I went to this Church and kind of liked it. At the time, I was married with three young children and was working full time, and may have been in school at that time too. I don't remember. The church had 4 buses. They knew I was a diesel mechanic and asked me if I could maintain and repair the buses which I accepted. I told the pastor I would be there on Saturdays to make repairs and maintain them etc. at no charge. There was one bus with an obsolete engine in it that had a bad piston. I spent many hours successfully repairing it. I was there every Saturday for 3 months and by that time, I had gone through every bus and felt comfortable about their safety and condition. So I took a Saturday off. The following Saturday I returned to the church to check the buses. Before I began, the pastor came out and asked me in his office. He said, "I WANT YOU TO TAKE YOUR TOOLS HOME WITH YOU AND NOT RETURN. YOU SAID YOU'D BE HERE EVERY SATURDAY AND YOU WEREN'T HERE LAST SATURDAY." I was devastated. Here I am a young man in my 20's trying to do good and that's what I get? So I left the church and didn't return or go back to any church for over 2 years until I returned back to NH.

I'm getting more red stars by the minute! Is there any way of changing the color to green or blue, red isn't one of my favorite colors.

Yeah, that experience would leave me soured as well. Holy shit some people don't realize the sacrifice that others make for them. Especially in the church, it quickly goes from volunteer to expectation.

I really don't know what set it off. None of the buses broke down, and I did a really good job! They only went about 20 miles on Sunday, and were parked for the rest of the week. So I'm puzzled til this day why the man did it!
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29-03-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: So tired of Christians
(27-03-2017 04:28 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  Thanks RVM,
I almost burned all my books and bibles about two months ago I was so disgruntled with Christians. But I didn't! YET anyway!

Well... If my sig is any indication. It's not too hard Wink

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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29-03-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: So tired of Christians
(28-03-2017 08:19 AM)Emma Wrote:  Now I feel like the program was cultish.

In my opinion all religions are cultish. My separation from the church was very easy for me. Since I started to disbelieve when I was 14 it made going to church a chore since my parents were / are devout christians. I remember vividly having to go to sunday school which I always skipped out on and ended up going with a friend of mine and hung out and smoked weed during that hour.

It's kind of a funny story about sunday school though. The one time I did go they brought in a guy that was a reformed drug dealer. Not very old (maybe early 20's and well dressed and well spoken). I learned more from him than I ever did from any sermon. He spoke very openly about the "in's and out's" of selling weed which I immediately put into action. So by going to church it made me a drug dealer by proxy all the way through college. I learned everything I could about growing and selling to only people that I knew. I financed most of my way through college by selling weed. So at least I did get something useful out of church.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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29-03-2017, 10:35 AM
RE: So tired of Christians
Hey Jack, you sound like me about 2 years ago, before I decided that deep down I knew the Bible and all the God/Jesus stuff was nonsense.

I'm in my early 40s now, went to church since I was born, and about 5 years ago things really started to bother me. The answers I had been given didn't seem to actually answer anything and thanks to YouTube, Google, etc. I was able to watch videos and read rebuttals to pretty much all the crap I had been told my whole life. I grew up pretty hardcore CoC which teaches a literal Bible interpretation. In fact they pretty much hate the term interpretation. So of course I was told evolution was a lie, Noah was real, creationism had been proven true, Jesus was a confirmed fact, etc. And come to find out a quick Google search tells you none of that shit is true.

But mostly for me it was the constant backhanded/passive aggressive nature against not just non-Christians but even Christians from different denominations. My church seemed to balk at the idea that they believed they were the only ones that were REAL Christians and the only REALLY saved ones, but it was clear that's what they thought since we spent so much time pointing it out.

I really hated church services. Bible classes were nothing but echo chambers. There was never any real discussion about anything that mattered. They never attempted to talk about actual history vs. biblical history or science (except when they found some apologist with a degree that told them what they wanted to hear). Science was demonized, medical fields were demonized (especially psychiatry and psychology). Church songs are some of the worst damn things in the world. And sermons were either hour long rants about how America sucked and God is mad, or how God is awesome and we aren't. Same shit every week. And I was expected to be there at least 3 times a week if not more.

Some of the people were/are fine but the problem is even the "good" ones are so involved in church that trying to be friends outside of church is almost pointless because being Christian IS THEIR ENTIRE LIFE. Plus any disent or disagreement is quickly shot down by guilt and accusations of division. So even the ones that might be having problems keep their mouths shut. The final straw for me was all the bitching about gay marriage and how horrible it was. I couldn't take anymore.

Probably the only downside to this whole thing is my relationship with my family has suffered. They dont' even know I'm full on atheist now, but they do know I don't go to the "right" church anymore, and that's just as bad as not going at all. I haven't had any arguments but I honestly avoid them because I know it will come up and I frankly don't want to talk about it or have to defend myself, nor listen to their guilt. I really don't want to hurt them but they are all so involved in church that it would really break them up that I don't believe like they do. My parents are also pretty old and I don't want to put anymore stress or anything on them. But having said that, I'm a goddamn grown ass man in my 40s, I am my own person and can do what I want. Thankfully I have a wife who supports me 100%.

So anyway, welcome. I love coming here to vent.
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29-03-2017, 01:00 PM
RE: So tired of Christians
(27-03-2017 05:41 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  
(27-03-2017 05:18 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > To tell the truth, the only Christians that I see regularly who behave in that fashion are the Jehovah's Witnesses who come to my door two or three times each year.

Have you had any contacts with other Christians? Many Protestants would tell you JW'S aren't Christians. JW'S, SDA'S, Catholics, Mormons are all on the Protestant black list.

> Yeah, I've heard that line before. The JW's will tell you that all those other groups are not real Christians. Frankly, none of them know what they're talking about and I really don't care what they think. Let the Christians fight it out among themselves.
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30-03-2017, 03:42 AM
RE: So tired of Christians
(29-03-2017 01:00 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > Yeah, I've heard that line before. The JW's will tell you that all those other groups are not real Christians. Frankly, none of them know what they're talking about and I really don't care what they think. Let the Christians fight it out among themselves.

It may sound odd but I actually love it when JW comes by my door. I love it when I tell them I'm an Atheist and then the questions begin. Why will only a relatively small number of people (144,000) will be resurrected to life in heaven to rule with Jesus in the Kingdom? Seems to me you wouldn't want to recruit people if it lowers your odds of actually being one of those 144,000 people? Hell... I'd be culling people out of the religion right and left. For the rest, God will bless obedient people with perfect health and everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

They usually start off with the evil and suffering in this world. "These began when one of God’s angels rebelled. This angel, who after his rebellion was called “Satan” and “Devil,” persuaded the first human couple to join him, and the consequences have been disastrous for their descendants. In order to settle the moral issues raised by Satan, God has allowed evil and suffering, but He will not permit them to continue forever. How fucking childish do you have to be to believe shit like that? So I enjoy quoting scripture back at them to disprove their points. I didn't invite them to my house but if you are going to show up with your fucked up beliefs and try to convert me then I'm going to try to convert you back. I don't show up at their house trying to convert them to Atheistism so it's only fair.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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