So we quit the church and began "the talk"
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04-12-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
(04-12-2013 10:46 AM)kim Wrote:  Dawkins recently put out a kid's book, The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True, which explains about cultural stories and mythology. It might be a teeny bit beyond your son, but it might help you and your wife to get into the mind frame to better answer his questions. Also, there is a kid's version of Bill Bryson's, A Short History of Nearly Everything - fantastic book. These could be books for you to read to him but, make sure he also gets a couple of books that spark just his interests.

thanks! I will add those to my list! My 5th grader is taking Latin at school this year and they are studying all the Roman & Greek gods, goddesses and myths too. It all helps put it into perspective.


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04-12-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
I guess I should provide a link or two ...

The kid's version of that Bill Bryson book is called A Really Short History of Nearly Everything. Scroll down for the reviews. I enjoyed the adult version and can't imagine the children's version to be anything but exciting as hell.


Here's a link to amazon's reviews of The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True . You know... Consider I think I know a few adults that could benefit from reading this one.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-12-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
(04-12-2013 09:40 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  Oh man, this so reminds me of my final effort to reconnect with the church...

About a year and a half ago, following a nasty breakup with my high school sweetheart, I was in a pretty scary place, very deep in depression, and after the suicidal thoughts showed up, I decided it was time to seek some help, but not being able to afford any kind of therapy, and with parents being hyper religious, all I got from anyone was "I'll pray for you" and "find a church", so I was basically just like "Fine, I'll try it"

The church they recommended I try going to (because they knew people there or something) wound up being full of all of the wealthy people in town. Basically I just wound up being scoffed at for not dressing up to par, getting disgusted looks when I passed on the tithing bowl without contributing (mind you, this was while i was paying for college and rent out of my own pocket, so at any given time I had less than 50 dollars to my name for food and gas), and it only took about two Sundays for me to be so thoroughly disgusted with the church that I left.

Evidently no one cared when they saw my "prayer card" in the tithing bowl that said "Contemplating suicide. Need help' with my phone number an email address on it.

WOW! That is terrible. I’ve only been to church a few times as a very young child, and only remember being incredibly bored by it. When I think about what it must actually be like, the story you told is basically what pops to mind. I imagine, it but be better than that other places, because some people seem to love it, which I don’t get at all. But sorry to hear your story. Despite not seeing a purpose to it, I would at least hope they would be there for people in your situation, or come to the OP with more love, and less hands out. I

t all seems so off putting to me. Other than fear of “God” and damnation, I can’t see why anyone actually likes going. I have friends who talk about how much they LOVE going to church, and I just can’t understand.

...
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04-12-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
(04-12-2013 11:38 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 09:40 AM)Jasozz Wrote:  Oh man, this so reminds me of my final effort to reconnect with the church...

About a year and a half ago, following a nasty breakup with my high school sweetheart, I was in a pretty scary place, very deep in depression, and after the suicidal thoughts showed up, I decided it was time to seek some help, but not being able to afford any kind of therapy, and with parents being hyper religious, all I got from anyone was "I'll pray for you" and "find a church", so I was basically just like "Fine, I'll try it"

The church they recommended I try going to (because they knew people there or something) wound up being full of all of the wealthy people in town. Basically I just wound up being scoffed at for not dressing up to par, getting disgusted looks when I passed on the tithing bowl without contributing (mind you, this was while i was paying for college and rent out of my own pocket, so at any given time I had less than 50 dollars to my name for food and gas), and it only took about two Sundays for me to be so thoroughly disgusted with the church that I left.

Evidently no one cared when they saw my "prayer card" in the tithing bowl that said "Contemplating suicide. Need help' with my phone number an email address on it.

WOW! That is terrible. I’ve only been to church a few times as a very young child, and only remember being incredibly bored by it. When I think about what it must actually be like, the story you told is basically what pops to mind. I imagine, it but be better than that other places, because some people seem to love it, which I don’t get at all. But sorry to hear your story. Despite not seeing a purpose to it, I would at least hope they would be there for people in your situation, or come to the OP with more love, and less hands out. I

t all seems so off putting to me. Other than fear of “God” and damnation, I can’t see why anyone actually likes going. I have friends who talk about how much they LOVE going to church, and I just can’t understand.

It wasn't a huge deal. Its one of my reasons I quote when people ask why I deconverted. When beer and wings with (non-religious) friends at Applebees helped immensely where the church didn't, it was time for a change.

Honestly I'm somewhat of a believer in the God-Gene. It just struck me as so odd that there are people who actually feel like theyre communicating with God every time they go to church, and those (e.g. my entire family) who blindly agree with everything they're told and never have the urge to question.

I really hope you figure stuff out, OP.
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04-12-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
I was thinking about that Dawkins book. It looks really good. I think my son would like it. He can't read that well now, but he loves shows on science. He loves history channel and science shows.

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04-12-2013, 04:54 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
(04-12-2013 12:25 PM)FaceOfBoe Wrote:  I was thinking about that Dawkins book. It looks really good. I think my son would like it. He can't read that well now, but he loves shows on science. He loves history channel and science shows.

I've heard tell that the version available for the iPad is even better. I think it's an app, not a book you would purchase from the online book store. I've heard the interactivity in the app can be rather inspiring and engaging for kids and adults alike.

I've not had a chance to sample it myself. If you have an iPad and choose that route, let us know how it goes!

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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04-12-2013, 05:07 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
I have the Dawkins "Magic of Reality" book and it is very good. It sets up each of the big kid type questions with a different myth explaining the answer (Where do rainbows come from? or who was the first human?) and then gives the science. I personally think it is a bit advanced for a 5-6 year old. I will read with them paraphrasing a great deal to convey the main message and using the illustrations.

As for talking with your young child, my advice is to address it this way: "Some people believe in God, some don't. It is up to each person to make their own decision. Many times people change their mind. Its also a private thing."

This will allow the child to navigate social situations with his peers a bit more easily.
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04-12-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
SO you started watching "The Talk", instead of going to church ?
I like Julie Chen, and Sheryl is pretty funny. Dodgy

It so weird. Growing up in an ultra-liberal environment, the "boundaries" are far less rigid. I go to church a couple times a year with my mom, and they are cool. I help in their food shelf, and they never preach. The fundies cut off their noses to spite their faces.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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04-12-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
Wow good for you Boe! I know first hand what this is like. I lost quite a few friends when we cut our ties. The ones I lost were the ones I was always really at odds with so I have to say that added stressful relationship being absent now is a relief. The ones who, although still fundamentalist, were close have remained after the transition bumps and are getting stronger again. Plus some awesome new ones have picked up. The transition isn't always easy but worth it to be truthful to yourself and family.

I just picked up magic of reality for my own child last week, excited to read it with her. I always answer her questions with many different explanations and examples. I'll tell her when something is an opinion of mine and I will also explain a different opinion too, like Grandma believes X or whatever. I always tell her she has to figure it out for herself though. Last week she reflected an agnostic/atheist point of view, the first time she's said the word out loud. She then told me what classmates were too Laugh out load

Kids are resilient, resourceful and amazing. Truth and honesty are the best approaches because they are no dummies.
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04-12-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: So we quit the church and began "the talk"
(04-12-2013 09:06 AM)FaceOfBoe Wrote:  I flirted with non belief for years. It wasn't until I found TTA and read Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins that I really decided I was an ATHEIST.

My wife flirted with belief but not dogma. She wasn't a literalist, but really stayed with the church mainly because it was all she knew and was afraid to let go. Recently she's been more and more open to actually being openly hostile to the idea of church and religion.

We went to a church for reasons outlined above, and haven't gone in months for various reasons primarily because of her dissatisfaction in the dogma (6 thousand year old earth, "fags" are bad, yoga is devil worship, etc.) Then we got a letter from the church asking us to come back. Saying they needed us in the church for our prayers, tithes, and offerings. The firmly requested our answer and gave us a deadline of December 15th.

We wrote a very strongly worded letter that I know will destroy some friendships. But so be it. I told my 6 year old son that we are quitting church. He asked if we are going somewhere else. I told him probably no. He asked why, and I told him that some people don't believe in god. He was, in typical 6 year old fashion, a bit dumbfounded and asked if there is no God, who created the whole universe.

Now, I am wary to strongly push my non belief on him, wanting him to make up his mind, though I hope he sees it the way I do. I told him of the bible being stories people made up to tell people how to live and that they aren't real. I told him some stories are good, and some are outdated. And that other people believe in different gods entirely!

How else can I proceed to tell a young mind this? It's very heavy topic area. Thoughts?


Also, as a post script the letter I wrote to the church is below if you care to read on.

We would respectfully ask to be removed from church membership. Our family has been members for about 7 years. Why hasn’t anyone from the church called in the past 6 months to see if we needed assistance, counseling, or support?

This letter should have been written to make us want to come back to church. Instead, it has had the opposite effect. We no longer wish to remain members of this church. We are offended that the letter seems to be more concerned with tithes you would like from members. We found the letter cold and uncaring.

Furthermore, we feel that Pastor Adams should have been the first line signer on the letter. Putting members of the church above the pastor illustrates where the leadership lies.

Leaving the church has nothing to do with Pastor Adams. He and his wife have been steadfast spiritual leaders of the church community. They should be commended for their efforts.

Our decision is final and should take effect immediately.


Time out. Yoga is devil worship? This is news to me that people felt this way about it!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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