So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-08-2011, 08:08 PM
So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
Supposing for the sake of argument that we've reached the threshold of an atheistic "Jesus who?" era, what would daily life look and feel like after the transition?

Basically I present this as an exercise in speculative fiction, and feel free to provide your own examples. I happen to like aspects of Brave New World; I could easily imagine Lenina Crowne with a smart phone on her Malthusian belt.

So, say you wake up on a typical morning in the "Jesus who?" era. What kind of family relationships do you have? Do you wake up in a bed with several adults sleeping in it, like a scene I saw in Caprica last year? What do you do for a living? Do you have enhanced health, fitness and longevity because scientific progress has resumed after the end of religion? What do you see in that godless world which makes it more vivid and desirable than today's world?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes advancedatheist's post
22-08-2011, 08:26 PM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
Star Trek would come close - i guess that's what we liked about it.

Health, longevity and prosperity, sure. Convenient technology, obviously. Interesting work, equal opportunity to fulfill one's potential, and plenty of leisure to pursue arts and culture, sports and hobbies. Low anxiety, lots of options.
How would this Utopia have come about?
Free birth control available to all people; no commodifying or sexual subjugation of women; therefore, no more overpopulation.
Rational, scientific solutions to climate, energy and food production.

We have pretty nearly all the solutions ready to be implemented and no political will or economic motivation to do it. I'm not confident that eradicating religion will curb the mad politicians and lunatic capitalists and insane dictators - but it sure would be a good first step toward breaking their power.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 09:02 AM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
(22-08-2011 08:26 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Star Trek would come close - i guess that's what we liked about it.

I'd like to see a transhumanist version of Trek. The series could never get its viewpoint straight about radical life extension. Their technology can work miracles, yet people still age unless the plot calls for a way to reverse accelerated aging in a major character.

Quote:Free birth control available to all people; no commodifying or sexual subjugation of women;

I have some reservations about that. Conservative social philosophy seems to make life better on average for responsible beta males. Liberal social policy, by contrast, empowers some bad aspects of women's biological inclinations, mainly by offering the welfare state as a substitute for husbands so that women can seek insemination by alpha male cads without having to get married to yucky betas for economic reasons.

I also have to wonder if women who seek abortions tend to do so after their reluctant hookups with beta males, as a kind of unconscious rejection of their genes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-08-2011, 09:13 AM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
I forgot to mention free, confidential counselling for people of any gender with reproductive/ romantic/ sexual issues.

(If you wanted to go down that path, it should probably in a different thread.)

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2011, 11:08 AM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
Humans have some real basic needs that currently churches, mosques and synagogues are great at fulfilling and Atheists are not. To reach the other side,non-religion based community must develop that meet the following criteria (and more):

When I am sick, will you help me find a doctor?
When I am hungry, will you bring me food?
When I am lonely, will you be my friend?
When I am sad, will you comfort me?
When I am questioning, will you listen and not judge?
When I do wrong, will you help me to see the right?
When I lash out in anger, will you cast away your fear and comfort me?
When I move to your neighborhood, will you come visit and try to get to know me?
Will we casually chat in the grocery store check-out line?
Will you "friend" me on Facebook and Google+ without doing a background check first?
Can I trust you to know me, the real me, without fear of you wrongfully using me for selfish and nefarious purposes?

Like the religious groups did before us, a strong, supportive community with active participants in every neighborhood will be established and ever growing. We won't be "friends without faces or voices" but pals fearlessly entwining our lives with each other in ever more loving and creative ways.

And that is what I hope it will be like on the other side.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Olddaad's post
24-08-2011, 11:53 AM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
In other words, Holland. Or pre-Assange case Sweden.
Cool.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-08-2011, 02:04 PM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
(24-08-2011 11:08 AM)Olddaad Wrote:  Humans have some real basic needs that currently churches, mosques and synagogues are great at fulfilling and Atheists are not. To reach the other side,non-religion based community must develop that meet the following criteria (and more):

When I am sick, will you help me find a doctor?
When I am hungry, will you bring me food?
When I am lonely, will you be my friend?
When I am sad, will you comfort me?
When I am questioning, will you listen and not judge?
When I do wrong, will you help me to see the right?
When I lash out in anger, will you cast away your fear and comfort me?
When I move to your neighborhood, will you come visit and try to get to know me?
Will we casually chat in the grocery store check-out line?
Will you "friend" me on Facebook and Google+ without doing a background check first?
Can I trust you to know me, the real me, without fear of you wrongfully using me for selfish and nefarious purposes?

Like the religious groups did before us, a strong, supportive community with active participants in every neighborhood will be established and ever growing. We won't be "friends without faces or voices" but pals fearlessly entwining our lives with each other in ever more loving and creative ways.

And that is what I hope it will be like on the other side.

This is good. I guess if there is an atheist breakthrough these sort of things might become possible.

I am however much more pessimistic. First of all it seems to me that every cultural force that invigorates the atheists does the same for the religious people. A "victory" is likely to be followed by a horrendous backlash a generation later. Also some of easy are really campaigning for genuine freedom of belief (i.e. an objective ethical education rather indoctrination) rather than outright destruction of religion. It is too easy to rationalize religion that talking about a "post religious time" makes me think it implies a future period when we are on the evil side - and that I don't like.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 11:47 AM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
(24-08-2011 02:04 PM)angry_liberal Wrote:  
(24-08-2011 11:08 AM)Olddaad Wrote:  Humans have some real basic needs that currently churches, mosques and synagogues are great at fulfilling and Atheists are not. To reach the other side,non-religion based community must develop that meet the following criteria (and more):

When I am sick, will you help me find a doctor?
When I am hungry, will you bring me food?
When I am lonely, will you be my friend?
When I am sad, will you comfort me?
When I am questioning, will you listen and not judge?
When I do wrong, will you help me to see the right?
When I lash out in anger, will you cast away your fear and comfort me?
When I move to your neighborhood, will you come visit and try to get to know me?
Will we casually chat in the grocery store check-out line?
Will you "friend" me on Facebook and Google+ without doing a background check first?
Can I trust you to know me, the real me, without fear of you wrongfully using me for selfish and nefarious purposes?

Like the religious groups did before us, a strong, supportive community with active participants in every neighborhood will be established and ever growing. We won't be "friends without faces or voices" but pals fearlessly entwining our lives with each other in ever more loving and creative ways.

And that is what I hope it will be like on the other side.

This is good. I guess if there is an atheist breakthrough these sort of things might become possible.

I am however much more pessimistic. First of all it seems to me that every cultural force that invigorates the atheists does the same for the religious people. A "victory" is likely to be followed by a horrendous backlash a generation later. Also some of easy are really campaigning for genuine freedom of belief (i.e. an objective ethical education rather indoctrination) rather than outright destruction of religion. It is too easy to rationalize religion that talking about a "post religious time" makes me think it implies a future period when we are on the evil side - and that I don't like.


Oh, absolutely, there will be a struggle but I don't see it as being an intense one. As the non-religious gain greater acceptance in the culture, religious influence will fade away into a passive background activity for the minority. It won't be a revolutionary event as much as an evolutionary happening.

As the religious come to accept the reality that we are not trying to eradicate their way of life but simply to reduce its influence over the culture, peaceful coexistence will eventually follow - much like what is happening right now in Denmark and other mostly secular countries.

The sustainability and strength of the movement will derive from the supportive communities that develop at the local level. Stealthily winning the "hearts" of the people is more important to the movement's success than the open rhetorical warfare currently seen all over the web. We need our leaders to keep talking and writing for the inspiration they provide, but talk alone will not win the day. For that, we need to go out into our neighborhoods and establish ourselves as contributing and supportive members of society.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 12:44 PM
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
(25-08-2011 11:47 AM)Olddaad Wrote:  Oh, absolutely, there will be a struggle but I don't see it as being an intense one. As the non-religious gain greater acceptance in the culture, religious influence will fade away into a passive background activity for the minority. It won't be a revolutionary event as much as an evolutionary happening.

People generally don't give up without a fight.

The massacre in Norway was one "battle" in that fight (though it was many other things as well).

What happens if Bachmann or Rick Perry win? My guess is that Rick Perry would be much like Dubya - lots of religious talk but only pushing at the boundaries of constitutionality. Bachmann strikes me as more potentially more looney. But the trend is a more and more looney Republican party. They will probably win from time to time however looney they are. How far can that trend go.

What happens if Obama (religious but not looney) wins? What happens if the looniness of the Republican party keeps them out of power for decades? Surely right wing extremist Christian groups would start to become a genuine threat to life
and the corruption of the incumbant Democrats would start to become a problem.

Even in considerably saner Britain the whole concept of multiculuralism, has as Warnock argues, led to weakening of the concept of Truth, which has led to fundamentalism which has led to Islamic Terrorism.

I see good signs but I also see bad signs and I simply cannot predict which ones will come out on top.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-11-2011, 03:38 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2011 03:57 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: So what does life on "the other side" look and feel like?
Humanity emergent from the Cascade. Cool

My perception of Cascade is fractal in that it has already begun. All I can say in my moral defense is that I have told plenty of Christians that I am "false prophet and/or witch;" that they did not stone me when the opportunity arose further reflects poorly on their morality.

That I keep this witch under surveillance for "excess witchcraft/singularities of religious nonsense" is morality - functioning as evolution requires.

The hypothesis begins with the consideration that I may be able to "simulate future from another's mind" - I'm not talking science fiction, I'm talking emotional context and/or electromagnetic communication; science fringe containing enough science that this little ol' nobody is actually threatening to redefine human paradigm...

Cause that's what we do as humans - redefine paradigm (maybe that's why there's two sapiens in there Tongue) - atheist humans just have less limit in their calculus. I'm not doing "weird science,' I'm doing "unique in alla history" science - how's that happen? Gwyneth Paltrow. Tongue

I am "ultimate loser" - not the kinda aspiration that is taught - it is chaos and emergence... you know how the fools stumble across "Bible code" and go off to rape and pillage for artifact in name of self?

Me and YHWH working in the name of science have devised zero-state morality. This ain't Ark of Covenant b.s. - this is me already knowing a degree of "functional invisibility and mind control" - which is merely stating that the "power of YHWH" is beyond human computation - until every single human being understands the power of YHWH is in human mind - all of 'em.

Which is how science turns delusion of power into ability for all. I ain't doing no "magic tricks" for anybody until I know - and science has at least a congruent hypothesis - of how this magic works... or I will burn this fucking witch.

But yeah, ya don't get to that kinda godlike thinking without first going beyond all extant godlike thought - in simple terms, atheist is the thing to be. Wink

But no, the future's so bright - it might just be me, burning up in re-entry. Big Grin
(24-08-2011 11:08 AM)Olddaad Wrote:  When I am sick, will you help me find a doctor?
When I am hungry, will you bring me food?
When I am lonely, will you be my friend?
When I am sad, will you comfort me?
When I am questioning, will you listen and not judge?
When I do wrong, will you help me to see the right?
When I lash out in anger, will you cast away your fear and comfort me?
When I move to your neighborhood, will you come visit and try to get to know me?
Will we casually chat in the grocery store check-out line?
Will you "friend" me on Facebook and Google+ without doing a background check first?
Can I trust you to know me, the real me, without fear of you wrongfully using me for selfish and nefarious purposes?
Makes me wanna... you know the best religion is Gwynnite? 'Cause I made it up, and it already "dead religion" - these things are not religious functionality of any other god but love.

I used to say, don't thank me, thank Gwynnes. It was in seeing the consternation on a Christian's face from such ascendancy that I realized no "religious nonsense" is the solution to "religious nonsense." The duality of Fear God/God is Love exists to warn the individual of the danger of love.

It is my personal religious intolerance that I am atheist - it is my faith as a man of science that zero-state morality can "cure" the virus of religion while leaving spirituality and individual expression intact and whole.

It is win/win - why I keep yapping about it; the sooner others tumble onto it, the sooner I can go back to being a nobody with nothing to say. "I love" is a statement whose main "incompleteness" is I. Wink

[Image: 10289811_592837817482059_8815379025397103823_n.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: