So.....who loves capitalism?
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17-11-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
er... replacement suggestion ?

It's been put forward that you suggest Stalinism.

What are the points in favour of your proposed replacement? What *problems* can you foresee implementing it?
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17-11-2012, 10:41 AM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
A communist system would be the preferred route.
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17-11-2012, 10:55 AM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
Right. Because communism has gone off without a hitch. The USSR, Cuba, China - no pollution or exploitation of people in those countries.

And you have the balls to ask other people if they know what's going on in the world?

On a related side note: I have a 60" LCD HD TV and I am NOT giving it up. In fact, I'm planning to sit on my couch on watch college football on it most of the afternoon while wearing my capitalist pig pajamas.

Go put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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17-11-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
(17-11-2012 10:55 AM)BnW Wrote:  Right. Because communism has gone off without a hitch. The USSR, Cuba, China - no pollution or exploitation of people in those countries.

And you have the balls to ask other people if they know what's going on in the world?

On a related side note: I have a 60" LCD HD TV and I am NOT giving it up. In fact, I'm planning to sit on my couch on watch college football on it most of the afternoon while wearing my capitalist pig pajamas.

Go put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Apparently you don't know that the U.S. has had an embargo on Cuba since the 60's? Or better yet, you don't even know that communism is popular but whenever it is implemented, here comes uncle sam with coup attempts and bombs.

Capitalism, it's so good you have to force people to accept it that must be some good stuff.

Drinking Beverage

How many millions of people die a day from malnutrition while the capitalist system wastes food in one part of the world in another people are starving, now that is one cluster fuck of a system.
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17-11-2012, 01:22 PM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
You want millions of people to suddenly start caring or you want to impose communism?... what do you mean by communism anyway? Some vague hippy undefined concept is no use when looking for solutions. I can tell you the bullshit system I learned about growing up in Zimbabwe (history class was heavily biased to the 'communists are great' view) is not good enough. Been tried and failed. And it's ugly. 1984 (I assume you know the book?) type vibe.
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17-11-2012, 01:39 PM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
(17-11-2012 10:41 AM)I and I Wrote:  A communist system would be the preferred route.


I think we got us a Commie infiltrator, here.

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17-11-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
(17-11-2012 11:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  Apparently you don't know that the U.S. has had an embargo on Cuba since the 60's? Or better yet, you don't even know that communism is popular but whenever it is implemented, here comes uncle sam with coup attempts and bombs.

Capitalism, it's so good you have to force people to accept it that must be some good stuff.

Drinking Beverage

How many millions of people die a day from malnutrition while the capitalist system wastes food in one part of the world in another people are starving, now that is one cluster fuck of a system.
I'm familiar with the Cuba embargo, TYVM. What that has to do with the price of tea in China is a mystery to me, though. That helps your point how, exactly? If anything, it kills your point because all it does is highlight that a communist country can't survive without capitalist dollars.

As for this idea that communism is popular wherever instituted, you may want to go read about the history of the USSR and communist China and about how much people loved it and how great it was. Mass poverty, lots of starvation, and, that had fuck all to do with US policy. You may want to also look at the history of the Middle East and the pro-Soviet economies put in place in places like Egypt under Nasser. He was doing just spiffy when the US was under writing his economy but once we stopped, his communist dream-land spiraled into massive economic meltdown phase. Funny how, again, the communist dream couldn't survive without the capitalist dollars.

There is a reason that people fled all those communist countries to come to the US and other western, capitalist countries. There is a reason Cubans are risking their lives on boats made out of paper to get to the US and Americans aren't risking their lives to get to Cuba. Capitalism isn't perfect by any means, and modern capitalism where corporate structures have completely divorced risk from reward are a huge problem and creates, in my view, a perversion of market forces. However, I'd take our current imperfections over a totalitarian communist regime any day.

As for the totality of your comments, while you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your own facts.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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17-11-2012, 04:50 PM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
Too be fair, communism in practice is different to it in theory, and in a Never-Going-to-exist ideal society, it would probably be the used system, assuming it did not get corrupted and go the way of every communist country ever... (Then again, you got to give North Korea some props, when it's people aren't starving to death or being murdered by the state, they have a very high adult literacy levels...)

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17-11-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
(17-11-2012 02:29 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 11:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  Apparently you don't know that the U.S. has had an embargo on Cuba since the 60's? Or better yet, you don't even know that communism is popular but whenever it is implemented, here comes uncle sam with coup attempts and bombs.

Capitalism, it's so good you have to force people to accept it that must be some good stuff.

Drinking Beverage

How many millions of people die a day from malnutrition while the capitalist system wastes food in one part of the world in another people are starving, now that is one cluster fuck of a system.
I'm familiar with the Cuba embargo, TYVM. What that has to do with the price of tea in China is a mystery to me, though. That helps your point how, exactly? If anything, it kills your point because all it does is highlight that a communist country can't survive without capitalist dollars.

As for this idea that communism is popular wherever instituted, you may want to go read about the history of the USSR and communist China and about how much people loved it and how great it was. Mass poverty, lots of starvation, and, that had fuck all to do with US policy. You may want to also look at the history of the Middle East and the pro-Soviet economies put in place in places like Egypt under Nasser. He was doing just spiffy when the US was under writing his economy but once we stopped, his communist dream-land spiraled into massive economic meltdown phase. Funny how, again, the communist dream couldn't survive without the capitalist dollars.

There is a reason that people fled all those communist countries to come to the US and other western, capitalist countries. There is a reason Cubans are risking their lives on boats made out of paper to get to the US and Americans aren't risking their lives to get to Cuba. Capitalism isn't perfect by any means, and modern capitalism where corporate structures have completely divorced risk from reward are a huge problem and creates, in my view, a perversion of market forces. However, I'd take our current imperfections over a totalitarian communist regime any day.

As for the totality of your comments, while you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your own facts.
You sound like a 1950's american propaganda video.

You made several very stupid assumptions. You assumed that capitalist regimes aren't or can't be totalitarian by stating that you would choose capitalism over totalitarian communist countries.

You also forgot to mention the many other communists that were popularly elected or put in power by a revolution have had assassination attempts, bombs, coup attempts, invasions etc etc. Which proves my point that in order to spit pro-capitalist bullshit you have to play dumb and not acknowledge those countries or pretend like you never heard about them.

The U.S. trained death squads to randomly go around killing people in nicaragua to undermine and get rid of the popular communist government.

Let's see, there was Arbenz in guetamala, A popularly elected communist that the U.S. had to get rid of.
Then there was Cuba the assassination attempts, giving their pig livestock a strain of virus that would kill many of the pigs, bay of pigs (that was a panty full).

Then there was the popularly elected Marxist Salvador Alliende, he was overthrown in a U.S. backed coup, the guy that was put in place after him was a known torturer, mass murderer and of course the U.S. loved the fuck out of him.

Then there was Iran, a popularly elected socialist leaning secular guy Mosaddegh was popularly elected...but of course the non totalitarian (wink wink) capitalists didn't like that so he had to go then another pro-U.S. war criminial was put in place to terrorize and torture and rule Iran with and iron fist.

And there is Chavez in Venezuela, bush tried to overthrow that guy unsuccessfully.

Obamas administration has been involved in the overthrow of the elected commie in Honduras, what followed now is a campaign of arrests and a crackdown on rights.

I saved the best for last.
In the 60's in afghanistan when it was commie was a relatively modern country, women could be in politics wear what they want etc etc. But the non totalitarian capitalists (wink wink) didn't like afghanistan being commie.......so guess what glorious heaven the capitalists turned that place into?

There are many other accounts of U.S. puppets actively rounding up communists to destroy any leftist influence, like what the CIA and Saddam Hussein did in Iraq or what the shah or Iran did in Iran.

and this isn't even mentioning the millions of people die each year of starvation or malnutrition in many capitalist slums all around the world.
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17-11-2012, 05:24 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2012 05:37 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: So.....who loves capitalism?
Wait he actually suggests implementing Stalinistic communism? The most dictatorial, failed, oppressive, system of "communism" there is? Stalinistic communism ended up being little more than some fucked-up, ass backwards blend of capitalism, socialism, and totalitarianism on a backdrop of bureaucratic webs. Hell it never really even became communistic in the end anyway. It was some kind of horrible failed creation you would expect to come out of an evil scientists's lab.

You lambast capitalism for its woes around the world, such as oppression and the impoverishment of and malnutrition of the millions in the less developed sectors of the globe where the western powers exploit resources, yet under Stalin's and Mao's regimes, tens of millions died under the exact same conditions within their confines of power, through oppressive actions (executions, forced relocations, exiles, imprisonment) and famines. The so called "evils" of capitalism are really more manifestations of the evil's of human nature that occur over the drives of greed, power, and self-preservation of these desires and assets. And guess what, starvation, oppression, greed, self-preserving institutions and individuals, and authoritarian rules were RAMPANT under Stalinistic communism. Your so called evils of capitalism are really more evils of human nature, they transferred over full force under Stalin's regime.

Marx, in what fatally undermined almost every so called "communist" revolution that has ever occurred, never really addresses human nature. In reality, human nature is what kills any form of pure communism from occurring, and the drives for power and personal gains are OBVIOUS while studying the actions partaken by the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc. They operated out of self-interest only, and to hell with the well being of other humans. True communism requires perfect human beings in order to be achieved. As Marx said, history repeats itself once as tragedy, second as farce. Communistic revolutions have been little more than gigantic tragic farces over an over. The same shit fucks everything up in the end. They go WAY the fuck off the road-to-communism rails.

No shit capitalism has had its share fare of oppression, dictatorship backing, exploitation, and the like. It still pales in comparison to the damage done in the name of so called "communistic" regimes.

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