So.....who loves capitalism?

[Erxomai]

I see you've fallen prey to the Western brainwashing that Stalin was an evil dictator. You're going to have to review I&I's thread on the topic to get free of the propaganda the capitalists have filled your mind with.

[Chas]

(17-11-2012 05:24 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Wait he actually suggests implementing Stalinistic communism? The most dictatorial, failed, oppressive, system of "communism" there is? Stalinistic communism ended up being little more than some fucked-up, ass backwards blend of capitalism, socialism, and totalitarianism on a backdrop of bureaucratic webs. Hell it never really even became communistic in the end anyway. It was some kind of horrible failed creation you would expect to come out of an evil scientists's lab.

You lambast capitalism for its woes around the world, such as oppression and the impoverishment of and malnutrition of the millions in the less developed sectors of the globe where the western powers exploit resources, yet under Stalin's and Mao's regimes, tens of millions died under the exact same conditions within their confines of power, through oppressive actions (executions, forced relocations, exiles, imprisonment) and famines. The so called "evils" of capitalism are really more manifestations of the evil's of human nature that occur over the drives of greed, power, and self-preservation of these desires and assets. And guess what, starvation, oppression, greed, self-preserving institutions and individuals, and authoritarian rules were RAMPANT under Stalinistic communism. Your so called evils of capitalism are really more evils of human nature, they transferred over full force under Stalin's regime.

Marx, in what fatally undermined almost every so called "communist" revolution that has ever occurred, never really addresses human nature. In reality, human nature is what kills any form of pure communism from occurring, and the drives for power and personal gains are OBVIOUS while studying the actions partaken by the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc. They operated out of self-interest only, and to hell with the well being of other humans. True communism requires perfect human beings in order to be achieved. As Marx said, history repeats itself once as tragedy, second as farce. Communistic revolutions have been little more than gigantic tragic farces over an over. The same shit fucks everything up in the end. They go WAY the fuck off the road-to-communism rails.

No shit capitalism has had its share fare of oppression, dictatorship backing, exploitation, and the like. It still pales in comparison to the damage done in the name of so called "communistic" regimes.

You must read the other thread - this douchebag loves Stalin.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Then he's a kook and a tool of the highest order.


Doesn't surprise me though, typical mindset of a conspiracy theorist. Ignore contradicting evidence and claim that the opposing side is under brainwash control. OH THE IRONY. I guess we just can't touch Stalin since he never disseminated deceitful propaganda himself.

I'm curious though, does he consider Rosa Luxemburg, Walter Benjamin, George Sorel and the like to be part of the whole "capitalist propaganda?"

[I and I]

(17-11-2012 05:24 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Wait he actually suggests implementing Stalinistic communism? The most dictatorial, failed, oppressive, system of "communism" there is? Stalinistic communism ended up being little more than some fucked-up, ass backwards blend of capitalism, socialism, and totalitarianism on a backdrop of bureaucratic webs. Hell it never really even became communistic in the end anyway. It was some kind of horrible failed creation you would expect to come out of an evil scientists's lab.

You lambast capitalism for its woes around the world, such as oppression and the impoverishment of and malnutrition of the millions in the less developed sectors of the globe where the western powers exploit resources, yet under Stalin's and Mao's regimes, tens of millions died under the exact same conditions within their confines of power, through oppressive actions (executions, forced relocations, exiles, imprisonment) and famines. The so called "evils" of capitalism are really more manifestations of the evil's of human nature that occur over the drives of greed, power, and self-preservation of these desires and assets. And guess what, starvation, oppression, greed, self-preserving institutions and individuals, and authoritarian rules were RAMPANT under Stalinistic communism. Your so called evils of capitalism are really more evils of human nature, they transferred over full force under Stalin's regime.

Marx, in what fatally undermined almost every so called "communist" revolution that has ever occurred, never really addresses human nature. In reality, human nature is what kills any form of pure communism from occurring, and the drives for power and personal gains are OBVIOUS while studying the actions partaken by the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc. They operated out of self-interest only, and to hell with the well being of other humans. True communism requires perfect human beings in order to be achieved. As Marx said, history repeats itself once as tragedy, second as farce. Communistic revolutions have been little more than gigantic tragic farces over an over. The same shit fucks everything up in the end. They go WAY the fuck off the road-to-communism rails.

No shit capitalism has had its share fare of oppression, dictatorship backing, exploitation, and the like. It still pales in comparison to the damage done in the name of so called "communistic" regimes.

It is human nature to exploit people for personal gain? How did you determine that this was "human nature"?

[I and I]

I really love how mass murder and starvation under capitalism is somehow brushed aside and just ruled as a consequence but someone who supports mass murdering anti-capitalists...well they are crazy.

I love capitalist double standards.

[Tartarus Sauce]

(17-11-2012 06:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  It is human nature to exploit people for personal gain? How did you determine that this was "human nature"?

Clearly it was some capitalist pig that came up with that idea right? We got along jussssssssst fine before capitalism came along.

[Free Thought]

(17-11-2012 06:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  

(17-11-2012 05:24 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Wait he actually suggests implementing Stalinistic communism? The most dictatorial, failed, oppressive, system of "communism" there is? Stalinistic communism ended up being little more than some fucked-up, ass backwards blend of capitalism, socialism, and totalitarianism on a backdrop of bureaucratic webs. Hell it never really even became communistic in the end anyway. It was some kind of horrible failed creation you would expect to come out of an evil scientists's lab.

You lambast capitalism for its woes around the world, such as oppression and the impoverishment of and malnutrition of the millions in the less developed sectors of the globe where the western powers exploit resources, yet under Stalin's and Mao's regimes, tens of millions died under the exact same conditions within their confines of power, through oppressive actions (executions, forced relocations, exiles, imprisonment) and famines. The so called "evils" of capitalism are really more manifestations of the evil's of human nature that occur over the drives of greed, power, and self-preservation of these desires and assets. And guess what, starvation, oppression, greed, self-preserving institutions and individuals, and authoritarian rules were RAMPANT under Stalinistic communism. Your so called evils of capitalism are really more evils of human nature, they transferred over full force under Stalin's regime.

Marx, in what fatally undermined almost every so called "communist" revolution that has ever occurred, never really addresses human nature. In reality, human nature is what kills any form of pure communism from occurring, and the drives for power and personal gains are OBVIOUS while studying the actions partaken by the likes of Stalin, Mao, etc. They operated out of self-interest only, and to hell with the well being of other humans. True communism requires perfect human beings in order to be achieved. As Marx said, history repeats itself once as tragedy, second as farce. Communistic revolutions have been little more than gigantic tragic farces over an over. The same shit fucks everything up in the end. They go WAY the fuck off the road-to-communism rails.

No shit capitalism has had its share fare of oppression, dictatorship backing, exploitation, and the like. It still pales in comparison to the damage done in the name of so called "communistic" regimes.

It is human nature to exploit people for personal gain? How did you determine that this was "human nature"?

Yes, it is "human nature" to exploit others for personal gain, it is a mechanism developed to restrict danger to one person and their charges by shifting that danger to others who's injury does not directly affect his/her survival chances.

We determine human nature just as we determine the nature of any creature: We observe, and lets face it. Us humans are total arseholes.

[I and I]

(17-11-2012 06:17 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  

(17-11-2012 06:12 PM)I and I Wrote:  It is human nature to exploit people for personal gain? How did you determine that this was "human nature"?

Humans live in groups and are dependent on the group, it's been that way for a long time, how is it human nature to go against the group and only have your personal interests in mind?

When did this start?



Yes, it is "human nature" to exploit others for personal gain, it is a mechanism developed to restrict danger to one person and their charges by shifting that danger to others who's injury does not directly affect his/her survival chances.

We determine human nature just as we determine the nature of any creature: We observe, and lets face it. Us humans are total arseholes.

[Tartarus Sauce]

So, you think that because we are social animals by nature that your average human would sacrifice EVERYTHING and ANYTHING as long as it helped the group proliferate?
You think that any human would sacrifice themselves for the well-being without question or though of consequences just because it would help the group?


I'm sorry, but humans are much more complex creatures than that. I think that the individual only truly cares for the group for as long as that group is beneficial for the individual. You could argue that every human being is selfish by nature and that any form of altruism and/or group cooperation really boils down to self-preservation and fulfillment of consciousness. In order to be empathetic, you must have a reflection back upon the self to relate. There is almost ALWAYS an "I, me, my" somewhere in the equation.

[Free Thought]

(17-11-2012 06:23 PM)I and I Wrote:  Humans live in groups and are dependent on the group, it's been that way for a long time, how is it human nature to go against the group and only have your personal interests in mind?

When did this start?

While living in a strong group was tantamount to survival, humans (and some other animals), tend to look out for their own, above others who are not considered direct kin within the group. It's a "If I can get this guy to risk his neck doing something for me, I/my kin, gain an advantage." kind of situation, it is not ultimately weakening the group, simply changing the balance of power between two inside it. Besides, your own survival is the first priority (once you sire offspring, it changes to them taking priority), which is why groups formed to begin with. (kin of course is offspring and mates)

Granted, there is more to it than that, most of the using of other people falls under reciprocity, usually when somebody does something for you, you owe them a favour.