So, whose forum is this, anyway?
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07-07-2013, 08:07 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 07:47 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Secondly, like I said, the section is being discussed. If you really want further information I went into it, neutrally listened to the arguments for both sides, formed an opinion and posted that opinion yesterday whilst stating that if the team was in favour of doing the opposite I would accept that. No-one else has responded since. It's outta my hands at the moment. I still think it would solve nothing, this isn't about google hits, it's about people's emotions, and a new section won't remove those.

Oh, and I believe a yet to be resolved issue is what criteria would be used to determine what threads went in, as well as whether a thread would be judged in it's entirety or solely on the OP. I did have one suggestion made to me in private on a criteria, it was to put anything that discussed illegal activity in there. I like how it is clear and objective but I am also concerned about essentially creating an illegal activities section. I also think that putting pretty mild topics (such as marijuana regulations) in there will mean most people choose to enter and are thus still exposed to more controversial views. What do you think?

Every hour you "discuss" you run into the risk of having another person's life here fall apart. It's been days. There are people curled up on their beds in pain. Admin suffers from inertia and the inability to make decisions.

Put the pedo topic in there because it DAMAGES your atheist membership.

Then you can have all the discussions in the world about what else goes in there. I am sure there will be many opinions that can be evaluated, there is no hurry with that anymore.

BTW, once the thread is moved out of google's view, it will lose it's ranking and the SEO issue will be solved within days.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-07-2013, 08:07 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
if freedom of speech a natural right, then supporting it is mainly about forcing what hate others freedom to loose it

the problem is what noone wants to assume anything and everyone want to profit from everything, leaving it to nature or gods or to its own ends

positive is the present

present reason is the lack of negative, the awareness of negative absence makes present real

so positive is present constancy

then constancy is what exist

then existence is free

then freedom is life

promoting a right while giving it to everyone is against the conception of right which is a superior value to all possible else
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07-07-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 07:57 AM)Dom Wrote:  Hits to their site is not the benefit, that is a negligible effect in the scope of SEO. It works this way:

TTA is a well established site, google has indexed it completely and it is aged properly.

Google decides which new sites are worthy of getting exposure by counting links from established sites with the same topic to new sites. (There are many other criteria, but tis one is the most powerful).

Every day, google cruises by here and counts posts in threads. The threads with the most posts get pushed up.

If such a popular thread contains links to a newer site, this site gets elevated along with the thread.

It's the oldest trick in the book to make your new site visible in google. It rarely is as successful as this one, the thread is sustaining itself for days with tons of posts.

The hits from here are not an issue. you maybe get 20 people going there.

Piggybacking on TTA's google standing brings hundreds or thousands of hits, depending on how lively that thread is.

The boost that TTA has given this site is invaluable. It alone has put it on the map.

So now we have facilitated hundreds or thousands of pedos to get in touch and learn about methods such as "comforting the victim ".

This could have been totally prevented by having a section that google does not monitor.

They still didn't force people to read/reply. They were as guilty of advertising as I was when I created a thread about Worthy Christian Forums and got TTA up to second on the first page of a google search for WCF.

Did you have any ideas on the questions I posed?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-07-2013, 08:11 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 08:08 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 07:57 AM)Dom Wrote:  Hits to their site is not the benefit, that is a negligible effect in the scope of SEO. It works this way:

TTA is a well established site, google has indexed it completely and it is aged properly.

Google decides which new sites are worthy of getting exposure by counting links from established sites with the same topic to new sites. (There are many other criteria, but tis one is the most powerful).

Every day, google cruises by here and counts posts in threads. The threads with the most posts get pushed up.

If such a popular thread contains links to a newer site, this site gets elevated along with the thread.

It's the oldest trick in the book to make your new site visible in google. It rarely is as successful as this one, the thread is sustaining itself for days with tons of posts.

The hits from here are not an issue. you maybe get 20 people going there.

Piggybacking on TTA's google standing brings hundreds or thousands of hits, depending on how lively that thread is.

The boost that TTA has given this site is invaluable. It alone has put it on the map.

So now we have facilitated hundreds or thousands of pedos to get in touch and learn about methods such as "comforting the victim ".

This could have been totally prevented by having a section that google does not monitor.

They still didn't force people to read/reply. They were as guilty of advertising as I was when I created a thread about Worthy Christian Forums and got TTA up to second on the first page of a google search for WCF.

Did you have any ideas on the questions I posed?

Yes , I am forced to reply! Either I do that or I go curl up in my corner. I am replying to save my own sanity. I refuse to be subdued on the subject. I am not a victim anymore. I am damn well going to speak up. If only one other victim benefits from it, it will be all worth it to me.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-07-2013, 08:14 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 07:57 AM)Percepticon Wrote:  What about more of a 'trigger warning' approach? That covers a good chunk--pedophilia, rape, murder, suicide....I'm sure others I can't think of off the top of my head...

It's one possibility. One problem though that occurs to me is that we have had dozens (if not hundreds) of paedo threads before this that have caused no issues whatsoever, all those threads about RCC priests. They are evidence that blacklisting by this criteria will also catch many threads that cause no issue in the net. Once benign threads enter that section everyone has a reason to access it and it loses it's function.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-07-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
So, I can't stop dragging this through my mind.

(03-07-2013 12:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'd say the ideal level of moderation is probably more than "anyone can say anything, forever".

All the poop does tend to warn people off.

But, free speech is still an ideal I think we'd agree to uphold so far as is practical. Practical being the source of disagreement.

Well. Had a fair bit to think on, since then...

(07-07-2013 07:35 AM)Dom Wrote:  Ask all the abused folk here if they feel like they are allowed fee speech here. Why would Deep explode they way he did? Because is just an unstable idiot? Why would girly post in a manner that is not recognizable as his style? All subdued? Open your damn eyes ! We are HUMAN. We are not machines. You have done irreparable harm to some with your intransigent stance. What the fuck is so hard about opening an "enter at your own risk" section that would have helped many to avoid the landmine? And why are you promoting pedophilia on this site by allowing it to rank high in google for the term and boosting the pedo site through links to their site? As webmaster, the boost their site has gotten through this thread is worth some 5000 dollars. It is almost priceless. It has put them on the map.

I don't understand how you feel. I'm not saying that to be facile or dismissive but in a very literal sense. I do not - can not - understand how charged the topic is for you and how strong are the feelings it brings back. I have a crude and inadequate empathy - that is no comparison. I am so overwhelmingly glad I was never in such a situation. Perhaps most depressing is the sheer number of people who were. I resent the inadequacy of any response I might make, any condolences or support or compassion I might offer, limited as it is to just a few words.

But. Mother of all fucking buts. I also feel for the self-confessed pedophiles in the other thread. Please understand that this is absolutely independent of the tearing sorrow it brings to mind to think of you or others here being abused. But I cannot help but have some degree of pity and sympathy for someone in the self-confessed pedophile's position - having thoughts they can't control but which they know are wrong (hell - being dismissed when they say they feel for those victimised?). They are also human. To me, that means an attempt at understanding is part of their birthright.

What's the takeaway from this shitshow? I am drawn to conclude, irrespective of my own feelings on the matter, that the responsible thing to do is to mandate a little more control over discussion.

With respect to the pedo thread, I make that conclusion because the good there done is, as I deem it, far outweighed by the harm there caused. That is the only way I know to judge whether something should be done (regardless of the right to do so).

(07-07-2013 07:23 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Free-speech is about forcibly silencing someone. It would literally impossible to have a system of free-speech where no-one was allowed to upset anyone else.

If you have an idea though I'm all ears.

Free speech is a principle. It is not an absolute mandate.

I reluctantly draw the line when it is seriously harming people.

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07-07-2013, 08:16 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
If anyone knows of a mybb plugin that gives people an ignore list for threads as well as members by the way that would be great.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-07-2013, 08:18 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 08:14 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 07:57 AM)Percepticon Wrote:  What about more of a 'trigger warning' approach? That covers a good chunk--pedophilia, rape, murder, suicide....I'm sure others I can't think of off the top of my head...

It's one possibility. One problem though that occurs to me is that we have had dozens (if not hundreds) of paedo threads before this that have caused no issues whatsoever, all those threads about RCC priests. They are evidence that blacklisting by this criteria will also catch many threads that cause no issue in the net. Once benign threads enter that section everyone has a reason to access it and it loses it's function.

My thought is that threads would be moved if brought to the attention of a mod. No restriction on initial posting, but the community may decide on subsequent status if necessary.

Yeah, yeah, that's limited by subjective human fallibility... But so far as I can see it's also the best way to account for the fact that what will be, for some people, (for lack of a better word) problem threads is likewise subjective and unpredictable.

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07-07-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
That will leave the forum team between a rock and a hard place. Half the forum want more stuff in there, half want less. We have flare up every time someone suggest moving a thread, whether it's moved or not. TTA would become a war zone.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-07-2013, 08:22 AM
RE: So, whose forum is this, anyway?
(07-07-2013 08:15 AM)cjlr Wrote:  But. Mother of all fucking buts. I also feel for the self-confessed pedophiles in the other thread.

Believe it or not, I do too. I wouldn't want to be born in their skin. They do have issues. But I can't fix that, no one can fix it. Proper therapy might help them cope, but no one can really fix it unless you start giving out estrogen to them and reduce their sex drive. If I was afflicted in the way they are, I probably would choose that.

But what really hit me is when one divulged part of a "plan". That it is best to comfort the victim after the abuse and offer continued support.

Don't try to tell me that isn't proof that the possible abuse situation has been thought through in detail and that the pedo is preparing to act when the opportunity arises.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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