So why was Stalin a bad guy?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-10-2012, 08:39 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
Difference between incarceration and Siberian labor camps:

In one you get free hot meals, a private or two-person cell, television, lots of time to yourself, and air conditioning.

In the other you sleep fifty people to a room, get a chunk of bread a day, and work in the freezing cold all day, and refuse at the risk of sprouting a few structurally superfluous seven and a half or so millimeter holes.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 08:47 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
I reiterate:
(21-10-2012 06:02 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Define "bad".

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
21-10-2012, 08:50 PM
Re: RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
(21-10-2012 08:36 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 08:26 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  TRot
Yes there is, what is your reason against this?

He is known to be the leader in charge that pushed out contemporaries with opposing views that holds him as a dictator in control of decisions.

The released Russian documents are the numbers references I made. Not the propaganda.

Reports are he sentenced 800,000 to be executed.. Not all were, some just went to live imprisonment. These were the opposing revolutionaries as convicted. But over 2 mil were prisoners. That is from 1930 on which doesn't count the 7 prior years it what he did along with Lenin.

And when you have high control. There is no accidental death. If you fail to provide sufficient living for survival while you have a palace, you are responsible! just as a drink driver is responsible for a death if they know they had drinks and still Drove.. It's no longer an accident when you make that choice.

But I thought you didn't care about that, because right now more americans are incarcerated than there ever was at one time under Stalin. One bothers you enough to call it bad and one doesn't, why is that?

I've said in almost every post.. Stop making wild generalizations! I do think it's bad and never once said something rivage contrary. Get this biased idea out of your head that Americans think they're all grand and good.

While there is a difference between the prison systems just as the concentration camps if Nazis and America were different... The American actions are still horrid and reprehensible.

some aspects are downright nuts. 1 in 7 people in US prison are locked up because if marijuana.. That's insane and not worth any praise. Most people are just in for possession and not people that were distribututers either.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 09:15 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
(21-10-2012 08:39 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Difference between incarceration and Siberian labor camps:

In one you get free hot meals, a private or two-person cell, television, lots of time to yourself, and air conditioning.

In the other you sleep fifty people to a room, get a chunk of bread a day, and work in the freezing cold all day, and refuse at the risk of sprouting a few structurally superfluous seven and a half or so millimeter holes.

and you know the conditions of prison life in Soviet Russia because?

And notice how you are structuring your comments. You imply that abuses in prisons were related to the leader of a country yet you don't structure that in the same way for the U.S. You wouldn't say Obama, or Bush is having mass rapes or mass beatings ordered in U.S. jails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
Seriously?
Stalin isn't bad because America imprisons people?

That makes no sense.

America imprisons criminals. You murder someone, you go to prison.
Stalin was a power hungry dictator. He imprisoned 'political prisoners', people who opposed him or shared a different view.
It would be like the Republican party in America imprisoning all Democrats.

Not to mention he ordered the mass murder of hundred of thousands, even millions of these political prisoners.
Not to mention things like the officer purge in the Red Army which while killing thousands also severely crippled the Red Army and no doubt cost more lives when the Nazi's invaded.
During the war close to 2million of POW's were taken. Modern day estimates are that close to 600,000 never returned home.

Plus hunger, starvation etc.. etc.. It wasn't exactly a picnic in Eastern Berlin which gives a good insight to life behind the iron curtain.
Even today those countries are still recovering. Eastern Europe is not exactly Beverly Hills.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like earmuffs's post
21-10-2012, 09:47 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
For the record, in my 12 years in public schools and 4 years at Ohio State (critical thinking Ohio State apparently), I wasn't taught a single thing about Joseph Stalin. Terrible job of educating, yes. But definitely not this "brain washing mass media mind controlling" you seem to think exists here. The only reason I've studied him in the past is because according to theists, he is apparently the "biggest atheist murderer who ever lived." That and I read a lot about Hitler for funsies.



The reason Stalin is cast in a bad light in the Western world is that after the war ended, he kind of became a dick. He demanded that Russia be granted land rights when the war ended, which Britain refused to agree with. Then when the war did end, he just kinda took over all the countries he had forcefully claimed "for the good of Soviet Russia." Poland, Romania, Czech, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Albania became part of Russia because Stalin claimed he deserved them as "spoils of war." Not to mention that before the war kicked off, Stalin submitted a proposal to join the Axis powers, but was denied in the form of Nazi invasion.

And of course, this was all made more "evil" by his regime of choice, communism. And communism is synonymous with satan-worshiping witchcraft in the Western world. He also armed and supported North Korea and helped attack United Nations troops in the Korean War. So naturally, he is hated by the West, and since you're speaking English, I assume you also reside in the West and read Western world history books; the reason for all the evil depictions.

And if that doesn't convince you, he certainly did have a lot of unjustified deaths under his command.

25,700 Polish POWs were executed in the Katyn massacre. "While Stalin personally told a Polish general they'd 'lost track' of the officers in Manchuria, Polish railroad workers found the mass grave after the 1941 Nazi invasion. The massacre became a source of political controversy, with the Soviets eventually claiming that Germany committed the executions when the Soviet Union retook Poland in 1944. The Soviets did not admit responsibility until 1990."

Order No. 270, requiring superiors to shoot deserters on the spot. The order also directed "blocking detachments" to shoot fleeing panicked troops at the rear.

In June 1941, weeks after the German invasion began, Stalin also directed employing a scorched earth policy of destroying the infrastructure and food supplies of areas before the Germans could seize them, and that partisans were to be set up in evacuated areas. He also ordered the NKVD to murder around one hundred thousand political prisoners in areas where the Wermacht approached.

After the capture of Berlin, Soviet troops reportedly raped from tens of thousands to two million women, and 50,000 during and after the occupation of Budapest. In former Axis countries, such as Germany, Romania and Hungary, Red Army officers generally viewed cities, villages and farms as being open to pillaging and looting.

Then there was the high death rates at the special/concentration camps.



This is all from WikiP, but the books and authors where the information is referenced from are mostly historians and war buffs.

This information, on its own merit, does qualify Joseph Stalin as a bad person. Now if you want to start comparing these behaviors to American presidents again, remember that history is written by the victors.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 09:54 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
(21-10-2012 09:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Seriously?
Stalin isn't bad because America imprisons people?

That makes no sense.

America imprisons criminals. You murder someone, you go to prison.
Stalin was a power hungry dictator. He imprisoned 'political prisoners', people who opposed him or shared a different view.
It would be like the Republican party in America imprisoning all Democrats.

Not to mention he ordered the mass murder of hundred of thousands, even millions of these political prisoners.
Not to mention things like the officer purge in the Red Army which while killing thousands also severely crippled the Red Army and no doubt cost more lives when the Nazi's invaded.
During the war close to 2million of POW's were taken. Modern day estimates are that close to 600,000 never returned home.

Plus hunger, starvation etc.. etc.. It wasn't exactly a picnic in Eastern Berlin which gives a good insight to life behind the iron curtain.
Even today those countries are still recovering. Eastern Europe is not exactly Beverly Hills.

and this is according to who? do you think eastern europe is better off today or worse off today? Look at former Yugoslavia for example.

are you seriously blaming the deaths of russians from Nazi Invaders as to being the fault of Stalin? How the fuck do you twister to make that sound logical? I do love how when people blame the U.S. for terrorist attacks it's bad, but when x country is attacked by y we use the same logic we condemn. LOVE IT

Still no evidence of mass murder or programmed mass killings.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 10:03 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
(21-10-2012 09:47 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  For the record, in my 12 years in public schools and 4 years at Ohio State (critical thinking Ohio State apparently), I wasn't taught a single thing about Joseph Stalin. Terrible job of educating, yes. But definitely not this "brain washing mass media mind controlling" you seem to think exists here. The only reason I've studied him in the past is because according to theists, he is apparently the "biggest atheist murderer who ever lived." That and I read a lot about Hitler for funsies.



The reason Stalin is cast in a bad light in the Western world is that after the war ended, he kind of became a dick. He demanded that Russia be granted land rights when the war ended, which Britain refused to agree with. Then when the war did end, he just kinda took over all the countries he had forcefully claimed "for the good of Soviet Russia." Poland, Romania, Czech, Bulgaria, Hungary, Yugoslavia, and Albania became part of Russia because Stalin claimed he deserved them as "spoils of war." Not to mention that before the war kicked off, Stalin submitted a proposal to join the Axis powers, but was denied in the form of Nazi invasion.

And of course, this was all made more "evil" by his regime of choice, communism. And communism is synonymous with satan-worshiping witchcraft in the Western world. He also armed and supported North Korea and helped attack United Nations troops in the Korean War. So naturally, he is hated by the West, and since you're speaking English, I assume you also reside in the West and read Western world history books; the reason for all the evil depictions.

And if that doesn't convince you, he certainly did have a lot of unjustified deaths under his command.

25,700 Polish POWs were executed in the Katyn massacre. "While Stalin personally told a Polish general they'd 'lost track' of the officers in Manchuria, Polish railroad workers found the mass grave after the 1941 Nazi invasion. The massacre became a source of political controversy, with the Soviets eventually claiming that Germany committed the executions when the Soviet Union retook Poland in 1944. The Soviets did not admit responsibility until 1990."

Order No. 270, requiring superiors to shoot deserters on the spot. The order also directed "blocking detachments" to shoot fleeing panicked troops at the rear.

In June 1941, weeks after the German invasion began, Stalin also directed employing a scorched earth policy of destroying the infrastructure and food supplies of areas before the Germans could seize them, and that partisans were to be set up in evacuated areas. He also ordered the NKVD to murder around one hundred thousand political prisoners in areas where the Wermacht approached.

After the capture of Berlin, Soviet troops reportedly raped from tens of thousands to two million women, and 50,000 during and after the occupation of Budapest. In former Axis countries, such as Germany, Romania and Hungary, Red Army officers generally viewed cities, villages and farms as being open to pillaging and looting.

Then there was the high death rates at the special/concentration camps.



This is all from WikiP, but the books and authors where the information is referenced from are mostly historians and war buffs.

This information, on its own merit, does qualify Joseph Stalin as a bad person. Now if you want to start comparing these behaviors to American presidents again, remember that history is written by the victors.

The part about Stalin wanting to join the axis powers is bullshit, Stalin and Russia hated Japan and Japan didn't like Russia, and the Soviet Union along with communism was hated by Hitler and the Nazis and the plan to invade Russia was made far in advance. Grabbing land after the war was what all the allied powers did or tried to do. In Germany both the U.S. and the Soviet Union didn't want the germans to vote for their leader because both the communist candidate and the pro-western candidate were very popular and it would have been a close vote.

West Germany was where most of the industries and infrastructure facilities were after ww2 so when the Soviet Union rightly wanted reparations from Germany, the west didn't like it because they wanted to use those industries for western profit, hence the beginning of the Cold War. Then the U.S. had a surround policy in which they would use surrounding countries as threats to the Soviet Union, which is why Turkey has nukes and is in NATO and why Pakistan also has Nukes. The U.S. during the cold war invaded, propped up dictators, overthrew dictators far more often than the Soviets did.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 10:05 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
(21-10-2012 09:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(21-10-2012 09:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Seriously?
Stalin isn't bad because America imprisons people?

That makes no sense.

America imprisons criminals. You murder someone, you go to prison.
Stalin was a power hungry dictator. He imprisoned 'political prisoners', people who opposed him or shared a different view.
It would be like the Republican party in America imprisoning all Democrats.

Not to mention he ordered the mass murder of hundred of thousands, even millions of these political prisoners.
Not to mention things like the officer purge in the Red Army which while killing thousands also severely crippled the Red Army and no doubt cost more lives when the Nazi's invaded.
During the war close to 2million of POW's were taken. Modern day estimates are that close to 600,000 never returned home.

Plus hunger, starvation etc.. etc.. It wasn't exactly a picnic in Eastern Berlin which gives a good insight to life behind the iron curtain.
Even today those countries are still recovering. Eastern Europe is not exactly Beverly Hills.

and this is according to who? do you think eastern europe is better off today or worse off today? Look at former Yugoslavia for example.

are you seriously blaming the deaths of russians from Nazi Invaders as to being the fault of Stalin? How the fuck do you twister to make that sound logical? I do love how when people blame the U.S. for terrorist attacks it's bad, but when x country is attacked by y we use the same logic we condemn. LOVE IT

Still no evidence of mass murder or programmed mass killings.

You're saying I'm twisting words?
I love to see how you figure I'm saying "go 'Merica"?
In fact I'm fairly sure I've spouted off many a anti-'merican rants here and there.

If X does something bad, that doesn't instantly mean Y is good.
What Stalin did is bad. That doesn't mean what America does is good. And vise verser.

And there is plenty of evidence.
I got mine from wiki from a quick 2minute browse.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-10-2012, 10:17 PM
RE: So why was Stalin a bad guy?
Letters and diaries from Gulag prisoners talking about the exceptionally harsh conditions:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoove...ticle/6368
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoove...ticle/5564

Quote:In the cattle car, no provision had been made for the Siberian cold. There was no light source in the dark except for what came in through the windows. We had to take turns sleeping. It was crowded. There wasn’t enough food. Often we didn’t have enough water. When I came down with angina, our group leader couldn’t get a doctor for me. Add to all this the swearing, the quarrels, sometimes even fistfights, and thefts. . . . [When we arrived at the 145th,] we started work. I ended up in a brigade of the "unshod and unclothed," of those for whom there weren’t enough uniforms. They used us for work inside the camp, and we also hauled firewood [indecipherable] from the other side of the River Ussuri. I was sent outside the camp to work only twice. It was hard to walk through snowstorms dressed in the clothes that you remember, to cut wood in them, and to haul logs to camp without any gloves. . . . In the 174th, things got much worse. The guards were stricter. There wasn’t enough water. We melted and drank snow for as long as there was any on the territory of the camp. At one point, there wasn’t even an infirmary. We were put together with common criminals. I began to perform general assignment work. Even when I had the flu and the fever that it brings on, I couldn’t get excused. . . . This is why I am so afraid of any change in my circumstances: I am drawing on my last reserves of strength. . . . There is no hope of any improvement in my situation. I am afraid things will get worse. That is why I look on myself, given my health, as doomed.

He was a lucky one. He got himself transferred to a camp further south that was less cold, and thanks to gifts sent from his wife which weren't pilfered by the guards, he managed to clothe himself well enough to snag admin and desk jobs, rather than physical labor. He lived.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: