So... wtf...
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04-08-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(04-08-2015 10:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I personally want a new flag (though I would prefer children get fed) but I got no faith it'll pass. So it's a waste of money.
I don't care about the flag but i do want the Treaty of Waitangi dissolved and I want NZ to be independent from the Common Wealth. As a consequence the flag would need to change as we would no longer need the union jack, but that needs to be a consequence rather than the main purpose. It makes no sense just to change the flag.
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05-08-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: So... wtf...
(04-08-2015 11:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 10:06 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I personally want a new flag (though I would prefer children get fed) but I got no faith it'll pass. So it's a waste of money.
I don't care about the flag but i do want the Treaty of Waitangi dissolved and I want NZ to be independent from the Common Wealth. As a consequence the flag would need to change as we would no longer need the union jack, but that needs to be a consequence rather than the main purpose. It makes no sense just to change the flag.

No we should never leave the Commonwealth or at least not in the near future. There's zero point in doing so. Independence? We've always had that. Even when we were a Dominion we had complete autonomy. If we weren't our own country we wouldn't be able to be a member of the UN or whatever. We are an independent country. England has zero power over us.

The Commonwealth is more like a friendship bro thing. There's no point in leaving.

Look at America, they left and look how shit they've turned out.
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05-08-2015, 01:49 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 08:02 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  No we should never leave the Commonwealth or at least not in the near future. There's zero point in doing so. Independence? We've always had that. Even when we were a Dominion we had complete autonomy. If we weren't our own country we wouldn't be able to be a member of the UN or whatever. We are an independent country. England has zero power over us.

The Commonwealth is more like a friendship bro thing. There's no point in leaving.

Look at America, they left and look how shit they've turned out.
The treaty of waitangi is between the British and the Maori. If we are no longer with the Common Wealth then the Treaty is null and void.
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05-08-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 01:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 08:02 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  No we should never leave the Commonwealth or at least not in the near future. There's zero point in doing so. Independence? We've always had that. Even when we were a Dominion we had complete autonomy. If we weren't our own country we wouldn't be able to be a member of the UN or whatever. We are an independent country. England has zero power over us.

The Commonwealth is more like a friendship bro thing. There's no point in leaving.

Look at America, they left and look how shit they've turned out.
The treaty of waitangi is between the British and the Maori. If we are no longer with the Common Wealth then the Treaty is null and void.

The treaty is pretty much the only good thing about leaving the Commonwealth. That is one shit document and I'm sick to death of hearing about it. We learned about it almost every year in school. There's other things in the world beside the fucking treaty...
But I think that alone doesn't justify us in doing so.
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05-08-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 05:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  There's other things in the world beside the fucking treaty...
But I think that alone doesn't justify us in doing so.
I don't really consider us to be a free democratic country until all people are treated equal. If we hold Maori as special then that creates animosity and conflict both ways.
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05-08-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 05:51 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 05:47 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  There's other things in the world beside the fucking treaty...
But I think that alone doesn't justify us in doing so.
I don't really consider us to be a free democratic country until all people are treated equal. If we hold Maori as special then that creates animosity and conflict both ways.

Sure but if we get rid of the treaty we still have Iwi, Maori seats in parliament, Minister of Maori Affairs, scholarships specific to Maori, a focus on helping poor Maori (not just poor people), Maori culture etc..

You can get rid of (or make more equal) a few of those but some such as Iwi and the culture isn't going away so there will always be this them and us.

I know what you're saying I just don't think getting rid of the treaty is the solution to all our problems regarding the perceived (and often real) 'segregation' (for lack of better term) in this country.
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05-08-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 05:59 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Sure but if we get rid of the treaty we still have Iwi, Maori seats in parliament, Minister of Maori Affairs, scholarships specific to Maori, a focus on helping poor Maori (not just poor people), Maori culture etc..
I'm expecting that if you get in rid of the treaty then there is no reason to have special Maori seats.
I don't mind private Maori groups focussing on Maori people, as long as it isn't government funded. If private people decide to pool their money together and give it to other Maoris then that is upto them.
But under law, Maori have reserved parlimant seats, and have certain special privileges. There is even an official Maori rugby team which plays internationally.
I can understand why they want to be treated special, they weren't conquered, they signed an agreement with Britan. But this doesn't lead to harmony. We need to all be NZers.

There is something to be said for conquring and then moving forward as one nation.
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06-08-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(02-08-2015 02:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  $2 million for an initiative that would see all school children get free breakfast in schools. Refused by the government.

$25 million for a referendum and designs regarding us changing the flag. Accepted by the government.

... John Key, you're on your own with this retarded shit ...

Now, now, you're not evaluating this with a clear head. A new national flag will boost patriotic pride, hearts will swell, morale will lift. As it is with the tired old current flag it's hardly looked at anymore; children in school are bereft of its inspiration and are depressed and lack appetite. $2 million of lukewarm eggs and listless lamb sausage would be chucked into school dumpsters uneaten.

But doll up the flag, energize the nationalistic fire in the belly and bottomless youthful excited appetites would devour anything cheerfully and with enthusiasm, so a half million breakfast program would do the work of the $2 million plan. You could easily earmark half million out of the $25 million as an augmentation of the flag revitalization project and kill both birds with the millstone of a single parliamentary resolution.

You just have to take the proper view of these things.

Tsk.
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06-08-2015, 09:31 PM
RE: So... wtf...
There were some people butthurt about changing our flag, too, back when it happened in the 60s, but in retrospect I think the population would more or less agree it was a good thing.

If only we'd get around to picking a real flag for Ontario...

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06-08-2015, 09:32 PM
RE: So... wtf...
(05-08-2015 01:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 08:02 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  No we should never leave the Commonwealth or at least not in the near future. There's zero point in doing so. Independence? We've always had that. Even when we were a Dominion we had complete autonomy. If we weren't our own country we wouldn't be able to be a member of the UN or whatever. We are an independent country. England has zero power over us.

The Commonwealth is more like a friendship bro thing. There's no point in leaving.

Look at America, they left and look how shit they've turned out.
The treaty of waitangi is between the British and the Maori. If we are no longer with the Common Wealth then the Treaty is null and void.

That isn't how legal succession works.

... this is my signature!
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