Society And Physical Abuse
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29-05-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 09:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  Your scenario above shows the old stereotype - must be the man at fault. Feminism wants to do away with all the old stereotypes, that one included.

In all fairness, I dont believe that will ever happen.

What will happen is that more lip service will be paid to old stereotypes being gone, but the thinking will continue in terms of inequality.

It goes along with racism, it will never truely end or be over. Thats just human nature.

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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29-05-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
Feminism sucks. Just become egalitarian, and support both sides!

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29-05-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(28-05-2014 03:08 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Maybe we should invent a new term that stands in for the exact same core values of feminism, but that can't possibly have its label so viciously and easily distorted. Something like "equitable gender support" or "equi-genderism" for short.

How about Egalitarian?

(28-05-2014 03:13 PM)Dom Wrote:  You are sooo wrong!

Before feminism no man would ever have come forth to admit that his lady beat the crap out of him. Feminism freed both genders, and it hasn't gone far enough yet. When both genders are finally equal (and we are slowly getting there, equal pay for equal work is still amiss) then it should take less than a generation for actual equality to take place.

Why do these things always take generations to complete, and by the time they are done the causes are forgotten because a younger generation has taken over and thinks things have always been that way?

Would you like to go back to when women couldn't vote or work except in a few select, low pay jobs and men had to be responsible for everything? You wanna bet your sweet ass that no man would ever have admitted to being abused back then? You sucked it up and went to work and provided for your family.

I was referring to the third (and nebulous) wave of Feminism (from the 70's until today)

Female on male abuse is openly tolerated now, before feminism the man would be disciiplined by the community and the woman would be ostricized.

The progress thus far has only been the open support for women when they are abused and the blatant rushed justification for their behaviour when they are the perpetrators. Men have been abandoned both as perpetrators and victims. Seems very one sided to me.

Let's go back to the Jay-z and Solange debacle. How much media attention was dedicated to the speculation of what Jay Z did to "provoke" Solange to assault him? How much media was dedicated to criticizing Solange for her behavior?

If there is one thing that hasnt changed all these years is that women are still contemptously treated as irresponsible children (that is to say they have no responsibility or fault) in regards to their behaviour. If they act abusive and violent, it still is the fault of men.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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29-05-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 09:44 AM)War Horse Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 09:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  Your scenario above shows the old stereotype - must be the man at fault. Feminism wants to do away with all the old stereotypes, that one included.

In all fairness, I dont believe that will ever happen.

What will happen is that more lip service will be paid to old stereotypes being gone, but the thinking will continue in terms of inequality.

It goes along with racism, it will never truely end or be over. Thats just human nature.

It has come a very long way over the decades.

When I grew up:

There were two kinds of women.

The kind that is gorgeous and being beautiful meant that you became a slut, or you married very wealthy. Beautiful women were either private sluts or public sluts. Every man had access to a beautiful woman, only rich men had them as wives.

The one who was plain - that meant serving your man and family hand and foot. You spent your time cooking 3 meals a day, sewing, buying groceries with the cash your husband put in your hand, scrubbing floors on your knees, doing laundry in the bath tub with a wash board, darning socks, always pregnant, and and and.

Women who could not find a man had to (it was a stigma) become secretaries or nurses. Working women were frowned upon, any man was preferable, even if he beat the shit out of you daily.

Women were considered unable to do math, never allowed to touch money except grocery cash handed to them by men, unable to go to university, most schooling ended with grade school. They were literally slaves.

Well, it has come a very long way since then, in about 6 decades. I do see the light at the end of the tunnel, once equal pay for equal work is in place all that needs to be done is to clean up the legal system, which was created by men and tends to hurt men. Funny, that. I think it will be another 4 decades before everything is properly equal.

The emergence of males screaming for their rights is a sign that we are getting closer to equality. The lot of women has improved immensely, we are not slaves anymore. What is left to do is to clean up an inequitable legal system. I trust that the male movement will do that in time.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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29-05-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 02:49 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(28-05-2014 03:47 PM)Dom Wrote:  The equal pay for women act (whatever the actual name of it is) was actually just introduced by Obama. And, no, I am not going to produce peer reviewed papers or government documents on this, I heard it on the news recently. Tongue It was introduced because it is still quite common to have men and women in equal positions for unequal pay. Where have you been! Women aren't banned, never have been. They are just overlooked at promotion time or not hired in the first place. Although this has been changing quite a bit in the last decade or so, women do get less money so they are a better choice for top positions. Also more women are heads of household, so they make purchase decisions (didn't use to except at the grocer's) and for some companies it is better PR to have high ranking female employees.

Women didn't make the laws about men and the service, men did. Don't be blaming us for what you did to yourselves. Just work to undo it. I am quite sure women won't oppose your changing that, it sounds like a crap law to me.

I was referring to the Equal Pay Act of 1963, signed into law by Pres. Kennedy. Not to the recent bill proposed by Sen Clinton.

Actually that law wasn't about gender as much as it was about race. To assure that men would receive the same compensation.

The other problem is that law wasn't applied to women because they did often different jobs than men at first. As that changed the gaps became more apparent.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-05-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
I am not a feminist. Nor will I ever be one.

I feel Feminism was very important in it's time. But it has morphed into something ugly now. I do not like that all men are demonized as "evil oppressors" Because honestly I do not see them that way. There are bad apples in the bunch, but thats true for every group of people.

There are far too many Rebecca Watsons in the group for my taste as well.

I'll stick with supporting -human- rights as everyone should be treated equally, gender should have nothing to do with it.

As for women beating on men. It is a very ignored issue and is incredibly unfair. If I had seen that lady beating on her man I would have stepped in just as much as I would have in the reverse. Disgusting that anyone would think it was "funny"
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29-05-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 10:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 09:44 AM)War Horse Wrote:  In all fairness, I dont believe that will ever happen.

What will happen is that more lip service will be paid to old stereotypes being gone, but the thinking will continue in terms of inequality.

It goes along with racism, it will never truely end or be over. Thats just human nature.

It has come a very long way over the decades.

When I grew up:

There were two kinds of women.

The kind that is gorgeous and being beautiful meant that you became a slut, or you married very wealthy. Beautiful women were either private sluts or public sluts. Every man had access to a beautiful woman, only rich men had them as wives.

The one who was plain - that meant serving your man and family hand and foot. You spent your time cooking 3 meals a day, sewing, buying groceries with the cash your husband put in your hand, scrubbing floors on your knees, doing laundry in the bath tub with a wash board, darning socks, always pregnant, and and and.

Women who could not find a man had to (it was a stigma) become secretaries or nurses. Working women were frowned upon, any man was preferable, even if he beat the shit out of you daily.

Women were considered unable to do math, never allowed to touch money except grocery cash handed to them by men, unable to go to university, most schooling ended with grade school. They were literally slaves.

Well, it has come a very long way since then, in about 6 decades. I do see the light at the end of the tunnel, once equal pay for equal work is in place all that needs to be done is to clean up the legal system, which was created by men and tends to hurt men. Funny, that. I think it will be another 4 decades before everything is properly equal.

The emergence of males screaming for their rights is a sign that we are getting closer to equality. The lot of women has improved immensely, we are not slaves anymore. What is left to do is to clean up an inequitable legal system. I trust that the male movement will do that in time.

Just an odd aside...
Both my husband's grandparents (on his dad's side) were college graduates. Grandpa was born in the late 1800s. Grandma was born around 1902 or something. She had a Master's degree in Literature. Extremely unusual!

By contrast my mother in law. Both parents never graduated high school. Her father was a foundry worker and her mom never finished 3rd grade.

But both sets had to deal with the great depression...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-05-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 10:27 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  But it has morphed into something ugly now. I do not like that all men are demonized as "evil oppressors"

That is a fringe group. It's not fair to use extremes as examples, there are also misogynists to balance that.

the very vast majority of women today are not that, and feminism has gotten a very bad name because of a handful of nit-wits.

Feminism led women from slavery to freedom. It irks me a lot that all that work over the decades by so many women who had to face a lot of crap to free themselves is now measured by the reputation of some crazy fringe group that stole the label feminism.

Is there a word for females who hate males, such as we have misogynist for males who hate females? That needs to be their label, not feminists.

They are not feminists and they are not striving for equal rights. They are simply haters and sick.

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29-05-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 10:36 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(29-05-2014 10:27 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  But it has morphed into something ugly now. I do not like that all men are demonized as "evil oppressors"

That is a fringe group. It's not fair to use extremes as examples, there are also misogynists to balance that.

the very vast majority of women today are not that, and feminism has gotten a very bad name because of a handful of nit-wits.

Feminism led women from slavery to freedom. It irks me a lot that all that work over the decades by so many women who had to face a lot of crap to free themselves is now measured by the reputation of some crazy fringe group that stole the label feminism.

Is there a word for females who hate males, such as we have misogynist for males who hate females? That needs to be their label, not feminists.

They are not feminists and they are not striving for equal rights. They are simply haters and sick.

So they aren't "true" scotsman? I mean feminists?

I recongise the great work that feminists from the past have done, as I said above, just as I do unions etc. But I wont ignore the 'fringe" when the fringe is a very large and vocal group.

Besides, whats wrong with wanting to create equality for everyone, without worrying about what they are?
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29-05-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: Society And Physical Abuse
(29-05-2014 10:46 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  So they aren't "true" scotsman? I mean feminists?

Ouch!

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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