Sociopaths a product of evolution?
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18-07-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
(18-07-2013 08:26 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(18-07-2013 05:31 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It's never too late. Drinking Beverage

Definitely too late to be at the DC 3 in 1980. Undecided

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15-07-2015, 12:03 PM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2015 12:21 PM by Melanie.)
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
No. They are not a product of evolution because if they were, regardless of what people may say on here and how they like to compartmentalize and cut it, they would NOT be responsible for their behavior.

I believe it's a choice. We can choose to be what we want to be. There are many people who come from abusive and/or negligent homes, but they become well-adjusted, law-abiding citizens. There are also a corresponding number of people with the same neurological patterns as psychopaths and sociopaths, and yet are sometimes even more empathetic and sympathetic than even "normal" people.

All of these so-called "neurological abnormalities" like Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Frontal Lobe Disorder and etc. are all convenient excuses for why some people do what they do.

That's the hypocrisy of human nature--give labels rather than just call something or someone what they truly are but still blame them for their behavior. By the logical definition of it, having a neurological disorder means that our abnormalities control our behavior and not us, but yet and still, people say we still have control over our actions. If by definition we do have control, this would paradoxically mean that we DON'T have a disorder and that the labels we are given are just that--labels that are convenient cop outs for our behavior.

Sociopaths and Psychopaths are in conclusion, no different from us. They do not suffer from a mental illness, nor do they even suffer from a disorder or a neurological abnormality of any kind. They are people with free will who choose to violate social norms and the rights and welfare of others....for their own personal gain. I believe people want to refer to themselves as "normal" rather than just moral or decent because they don't want to own up to the fact that they are capable of the same things.
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15-07-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  No. They are not a product of evolution because if they were, regardless of what people may say on here and how they like to compartmentalize and cut it, they would NOT be responsible for their behavior.

That sounds like you are rejecting a conclusion because you do not like the implications. What you may want to be true has no bearing on what is true.

Quote:Sociopaths and Psychopaths are in conclusion, no different from us.

Citation required.

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15-07-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
I heard a guy recently postulate - that sometimes you WANT to be in the hands of a sociopath.....

Consider -- if you're undergoing a heart transplant - you WANT the surgeon to be dispassionate -- you WANT him to have ice in his veins.... He HAS to be emotionally non-connected or he'd be so jittery that he'd do more harm than good........

And in an emergency -- you WANT your pilot to be cool as a cucumber - and not freaking out - screaming "We're gonna DIE!!!!".......

.......................................

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15-07-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
I'm not a psychologist, but I'm pretty sure sociopathy is not psychopathy.
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15-07-2015, 02:37 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
It's quite different, and is caused by different factors as well. I've got a novel to write on the subject, being an internet defined schizoid with significant psychopathic tendencies myself (the internet is never wrong), but it's gonna have to wait because it's almost time to go get the kids from daycare. Tonight maybe.

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15-07-2015, 02:45 PM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
So, Melanie, what happened?

You sound quite angry, so I must assume that you had an encounter with a sociopath/psychopath or some other type of very abusive person.

Perhaps it would help more if we could look at some accounts of what happened?

It might help you a lot to vent in front of unknown people who are open to hearing all about it and will make honest comments.

Sorry something so disturbing happened to you...

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16-07-2015, 01:46 AM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  No. They are not a product of evolution because if they were, regardless of what people may say on here and how they like to compartmentalize and cut it, they would NOT be responsible for their behavior.

Why?

(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  I believe it's a choice. We can choose to be what we want to be. There are many people who come from abusive and/or negligent homes, but they become well-adjusted, law-abiding citizens. There are also a corresponding number of people with the same neurological patterns as psychopaths and sociopaths, and yet are sometimes even more empathetic and sympathetic than even "normal" people.

People believes many things. It does not make them true. You say there are many law-abiding people coming from abusive homes. So what? I suspect there is also quite a big number of people from abusive homes who are less than law-abiding. As for second part some sources would be good.

(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  All of these so-called "neurological abnormalities" like Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Frontal Lobe Disorder and etc. are all convenient excuses for why some people do what they do.

And all experts are lying or trying to help other make excuses? You are the one who is right? Steven Pinker in his book The Blank Slate cites that psychopathy is genetically conditioned (predisposed?) though it can have other causes as brain damage during early childhood*. You have better credentials than him? Or you just believe and belief is all you need?

(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  That's the hypocrisy of human nature--give labels rather than just call something or someone what they truly are but still blame them for their behavior. By the logical definition of it, having a neurological disorder means that our abnormalities control our behavior and not us, but yet and still, people say we still have control over our actions. If by definition we do have control, this would paradoxically mean that we DON'T have a disorder and that the labels we are given are just that--labels that are convenient cop outs for our behavior.

So you think that this particular disorder could not affect one thinking? It's all the way - either human is in control or his disorder? I think you're running from truth.

(15-07-2015 12:03 PM)Melanie Wrote:  Sociopaths and Psychopaths are in conclusion, no different from us. They do not suffer from a mental illness, nor do they even suffer from a disorder or a neurological abnormality of any kind. They are people with free will who choose to violate social norms and the rights and welfare of others....for their own personal gain. I believe people want to refer to themselves as "normal" rather than just moral or decent because they don't want to own up to the fact that they are capable of the same things.

I could be more gentle, but this is bullshit. It's just your belief not backed with any evidence. But facts don't go away if you choose to disregard them.

*Steven Pinker Tabula rasa. Spory o naturę ludzką (The Blank Slate), s. 83 of polish edition.

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16-07-2015, 03:55 AM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
The diagnosis for what is being discussed here (manipulative, life destroying parasites) is Antisocial Personality Disorder. There is specific criteria that must be met. Here is a straightforward explanation:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antiso...-symptoms/

I certainly see the lack of empathy as having evolutionary benefit. Think healthcare (ya want me upset over seeing your eviscerated abdomen or do you want me coolheaded and using algorithms and a bit of creativity to save your life?) and military. But just because you have a lack of or diminished sense of empathy doesn't mean you get your jollies off on making others hurt.

I would think it were your either more impulsive sociopaths or less intelligent ones that are discovered. It's estimated 3% of the population has APD (can't remember the source, was probably Mayoclinic or my psych nursing book). But with higher functioning sociopaths, people with the ability to follow enough rules to keep out of jail and fit in with society would be out of self interest, who the hell knows how common that occurs.

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16-07-2015, 05:36 AM
RE: Sociopaths a product of evolution?
(16-07-2015 03:55 AM)Nurse Wrote:  But with higher functioning sociopaths, people with the ability to follow enough rules to keep out of jail and fit in with society would be out of self interest, who the hell knows how common that occurs.

That would be nearly every CEO and COO in the world. Drinking Beverage

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