Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
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13-01-2015, 06:35 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
(12-01-2015 10:15 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(12-01-2015 03:12 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I was just thinking about this, how much energy would be required to create the clouds necessary to dump another volume of water on us equivalent to another ocean on top of the one we already have?

You're overthinking it. Most creationists just start off with the water created in the air. Earth was made with this giant built-in sprinkler system. Also you need to figure how much was released by the "fountains of the deep".

In the end it doesn't matter how they do it, it just doesn't work. The math is inescapable.

I tend to do that, I constantly came up with questions like this when I still believed, there was no way any apologists could answer all of my questions, I slowly self-immolated my faith.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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13-01-2015, 06:46 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
Ok, I found this equation, I'll put it here for reference:

The formula below is for evaporation levels of Pools:

Physics Forums

• W = Rate of evaporation at the surface of the water level (kg/h m2)
• Pw = Vapor pressure at saturation taken at the temperature of surface of water, in kPa
• Pa = Vapor pressure at the dew point according to the temperature of the ambient air of the room, in kPa
• V = Air velocity above at the surface of water, in m/s
• Y = Latent heat necessary according to the change of state of the water vapor at the temperature of surface of water, in kJ/kg

Option b) Shah equation: (here A is the water surface)
M/A + (95+0.425V) x (Pw – Pa) / Y

Here are some numbers for the variables:

Saturated Vapor Pressure, Density for Water

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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13-01-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
Ok, my research has yielded some base numbers to get a feel for the energies required.
The Water Cycle - A Climate Change Perspective gave me numbers for the amount of water contained within the entire hydrological cycle -
The overall water cycle "contains" between 1,386,000,000 and 1,460,000,000 km3 of water in various states (liquid, solid, or gaseous).

It also states that 434,000 cubic km of water evaporates from the oceans each year, while 71,000 km3 (about 1/6th as much) rises into the air over land via evaporation and transpiration.

So I average out the total hydrological amount of 1.386 and 1.46 billion km^3 to get 1.423 Bkm^3, then divide that by the total evaporation rate per year 434,000 km^3 + 71,000 km^3 = 505,000 km^3 per year.

So taking the total amount of water available and evaporating 100% of it would take - 1.423 billion/.000505 billion = 2811 years to evaporate every bit of water within the hydrological volume of the Earth.

So if we take the best case scenario in which no water is returned through precipitation during this evaporation event, it would require 2811 years to do this with no rain!

Since Noah had; at best 100 years to build his ark, and then we assume the "fountains of the deep" contributed half of this total. We are looking at 14 times the normal evaporation rate with ZERO rainfall during a 100 year period.

Holy sh*t!! Everyone on the planet would have been dead from starvation and thirst long before he built his ark, the trees needed to build the ark wouldn't have survived a year under such conditions.

The Earth would have been a sterilized wasteland in a couple of years.

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13-01-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
You familiar with the phrase, non-starter? An esoteric, intelligent object to creationism certainly qualifies. Also...

Quote:King James Bible
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Just lay down the king, dude. Tongue

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13-01-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
(13-01-2015 08:55 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Just lay down the king, dude. Tongue
This king?

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13-01-2015, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2015 12:13 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
I found this site:

Atmospheric Mositure: Evaporation and Condensation The water cycle

It said that for every 10 degrees Celsius increase in temperature, evaporation doubles.
So an increase of 37.5C is needed to increase the evaporation rate 14x its current value.

The Earth's average temperature is 16C, so a global average temperature of 53.5C (128.3 F) would be needed to evaporate that much water over a 100 year period.

So what would it be like in Noah's time? Imagine a 53.5C average temperature with no rain for 100 years. This is the best-case scenario where the evaporative cycle for the flood is aided by 50% contribution from "fountains of the deep" and it occurs slowly over 100 years.

The Earth becomes uninhabitable in rapid fashion, why not tell the tale of the great scorching where Noah goes into a massive cave with the animals to survive?

No falsifiable dimensions have to be given for the cave, so there would have been room in a cave of undefined volume.

Noah would not have to have built anything. Yep, the great scorching is more plausible. Maybe answers in Genesis can reinterpret the bible to claim that it really meant that. Laugh out load

It's a more plausible scenario, the physics of the atmosphere simply break down before the flood myth to even be remotely possible.

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13-01-2015, 02:55 PM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
Quote:The energy requirements for this flood scenario as well as the complexity have just increased by many orders of magnitude. At what point does the incredulity become too great?

You're forgetting that they invoke "magic." Like children.

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13-01-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
These approximations show that the water for the flood can't simply have evaporated but they aren't terribly accurate. The problem is pressure. The higher pressure goes, the more thermodynamically favorable the denser liquid phase becomes relative to the gas phase. The more water you put into the atmosphere the more energy it takes to put water into the atmosphere.

- Water has mass.
- Water retains its mass regardless of the state that it's in.
- Mass in the atmosphere exerts pressure.
- It also displaces oxygen.

So, Mt. Ararat is 5,137 m high. It's volcanic so we can discount the change and call it 5,000 m when Noah beached the ark there. Say the fountains of the deep nonsense contributed half. That's 2,500 m of water that Noah's living under. Every 10 m of water exerts roughly 1 atmosphere of pressure.

So if you put just half the minimum volume of water needed for the flood into the atmosphere, not only does it crush and asphyxiate Noah and all life on Earth, but it actually prevents the Flood. The critical point of water is 374 C at 218 atmospheres. At 250 atmospheres there is no distinction between liquid and gas phases, water is a supercritical fluid. Putting that much water into the atmosphere means that it can't rain.

Way to destroy the planet creationists. Again. Facepalm

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14-01-2015, 06:02 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
(13-01-2015 10:45 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  These approximations show that the water for the flood can't simply have evaporated but they aren't terribly accurate. The problem is pressure. The higher pressure goes, the more thermodynamically favorable the denser liquid phase becomes relative to the gas phase. The more water you put into the atmosphere the more energy it takes to put water into the atmosphere.

- Water has mass.
- Water retains its mass regardless of the state that it's in.
- Mass in the atmosphere exerts pressure.
- It also displaces oxygen.

So, Mt. Ararat is 5,137 m high. It's volcanic so we can discount the change and call it 5,000 m when Noah beached the ark there. Say the fountains of the deep nonsense contributed half. That's 2,500 m of water that Noah's living under. Every 10 m of water exerts roughly 1 atmosphere of pressure.

So if you put just half the minimum volume of water needed for the flood into the atmosphere, not only does it crush and asphyxiate Noah and all life on Earth, but it actually prevents the Flood. The critical point of water is 374 C at 218 atmospheres. At 250 atmospheres there is no distinction between liquid and gas phases, water is a supercritical fluid. Putting that much water into the atmosphere means that it can't rain.

Way to destroy the planet creationists. Again. Facepalm

Thanks for that, yeah I realized the entire physics of the atmosphere would be changed drastically. So calculating for changes in air pressure, changes in air temperature as this massive evaporation occurs, wow! It gets really complex fast!

But one thing is apparent, the entire climatological system of the planet goes completely off the rails and the planet becomes deadly to all life well before the first raindrop falls.

This reminds me of how I stopped believing in Santa Claus, how do you stuff over a billion presents in a sleigh and deliver them in a night? The numbers don't add up! Santa's BS!

How do you stuff that much moisture in the air given the the energy requirements? The numbers don't add up! It puts the bull in the bi-bull.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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15-01-2015, 12:11 AM
RE: Solar energy needed to initiate the Noahtic flood- wouldn't we fry?
There were no clouds according to some new apologists. The water came from inside the earth and burst outward with a tremendous force that escaped the planet earth and created "ALL" of the comets.

Its in a thunderfoot creationist video!


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