Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
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25-11-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(24-11-2014 04:01 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  OP,
Should have mentioned this earlier. There is an error in your first post. Solomon had 700 (not 1000) wives and 300 concubines. Same difference I know, but it's good to be accurate in these matters.

To answer your initial question- No. There is no documentation of any person, king or otherwise being married as many times as Solomon. The "wisest" man in the world also holds the record for being married the most times.

Wives were legally married and their offspring were legal heirs to the father's property while concubines were female sex slaves whose children often had no rights (see the case of Abraham and his bastard son, Ishmael).

Doc

Is there documentation that polygamy was practiced? Yes. Is it illogical that Solomon had many wives? No. He cemented alliances through marriages and was offered wives and concubines as tribute. The Bible takes an unusual circumstance (again) and gives logical reasons (again).

I recommend you argue THIS instance rather than "But the Bible is illogical elsewhere when it" as that has nothing to do with Solomon.

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25-11-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
Let’s say that it is not realistic to believe that Solomon really had 700 wives and 300 concubines and therefore we can then suspect that we are dealing with allegory. The magical numbers of “7” and “3” are widely recognized as each having a strong symbolic component to them so when we see them together we should naturally be suspicious that they are not intended literally. We can see something similar in the story of Job where Job had 7 sons and 3 daughters and 7,000 sheep and 3,000 camels. (Job 1:2-3).

The true nature of the number “7” is hinted at in the assignment of the name “Septuagint” (which comes from the Latin word for “seventy”) to the Greek translation of the Jewish Old Testament books. We have been told that this name was assigned because 70 scholars were involved in the translation project which gave birth to the Septuagint, but given the large number of apparent errors contained in this translation, we should be very suspicious of this claim. (Literalists can think, if they wish, that that many errors indicates a lack of expertise, but in reality I mean that the “errors” were created intentionally because of the difficulties in translating hidden meanings when phonetics also played a role in metaphoric assignments.)

I propose this interpretation. The number’s 3 and 7 represent types of writings. I will assign “history” to 3 and “religion works” to 7. A translation is then represented by making the number a multiple of 10 so a translation of Old Testament works is assigned the number 70. This would also mean that David’s 30 “Mighty Men” represented history borrowed from other nations and it also explains why David also had 3 other Mighty Men that were "not part of the 30", since they could represent history that actually belonged to the Hebrews and therefore did not require translation. When the numbers are then expressed as multiples of 100 or 1000, we might assume that this means it is referring to a translation of a translation or that there is some other change such as an allegorization or paraphrase of a translation. So, I propose that the "wives" and "concubines" represent foreign ideas and stories stolen from other nations to serve as "cover" for Hebrew allegory.

Solomon played a key role in the development of religious allegory which was conveyed in the story of his exchanging of “puzzles” with the Phoenician King Hiram. (When creating allegorized history, it is important to coordinate with your neighbors.) This also helps to explain why the “Song of Solomon” is included in the Old Testament since it provides many metaphoric relationships that are undoubtedly useful in deciphering this allegory.
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25-11-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
Anti-oil, Q.
Q, Anti-oil.

Have fun, you two!
Doc
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25-11-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(25-11-2014 01:31 PM)Anti-oil Wrote:  Let’s say that it is not realistic to believe that Solomon really had 700 wives and 300 concubines and therefore we can then suspect that we are dealing with allegory. The magical numbers of “7” and “3” are widely recognized as each having a strong symbolic component to them so when we see them together we should naturally be suspicious that they are not intended literally. We can see something similar in the story of Job where Job had 7 sons and 3 daughters and 7,000 sheep and 3,000 camels. (Job 1:2-3).

The true nature of the number “7” is hinted at in the assignment of the name “Septuagint” (which comes from the Latin word for “seventy”) to the Greek translation of the Jewish Old Testament books. We have been told that this name was assigned because 70 scholars were involved in the translation project which gave birth to the Septuagint, but given the large number of apparent errors contained in this translation, we should be very suspicious of this claim. (Literalists can think, if they wish, that that many errors indicates a lack of expertise, but in reality I mean that the “errors” were created intentionally because of the difficulties in translating hidden meanings when phonetics also played a role in metaphoric assignments.)

I propose this interpretation. The number’s 3 and 7 represent types of writings. I will assign “history” to 3 and “religion works” to 7. A translation is then represented by making the number a multiple of 10 so a translation of Old Testament works is assigned the number 70. This would also mean that David’s 30 “Mighty Men” represented history borrowed from other nations and it also explains why David also had 3 other Mighty Men that were "not part of the 30", since they could represent history that actually belonged to the Hebrews and therefore did not require translation. When the numbers are then expressed as multiples of 100 or 1000, we might assume that this means it is referring to a translation of a translation or that there is some other change such as an allegorization or paraphrase of a translation. So, I propose that the "wives" and "concubines" represent foreign ideas and stories stolen from other nations to serve as "cover" for Hebrew allegory.

Solomon played a key role in the development of religious allegory which was conveyed in the story of his exchanging of “puzzles” with the Phoenician King Hiram. (When creating allegorized history, it is important to coordinate with your neighbors.) This also helps to explain why the “Song of Solomon” is included in the Old Testament since it provides many metaphoric relationships that are undoubtedly useful in deciphering this allegory.

Interesting theory. I like it! I'd go for he had nearly that many wives and concubines and then the figures were rounded. Nice.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-11-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(24-11-2014 03:37 AM)Nurse Wrote:  How have I not heard of this Betty?!?! That video was fantastic.


As for the wives and concubines, I doubt it could be all that fulfilling even if it were true. It takes time and effort to discover what makes your partner tick and then make that.. erm... bomb explode.


See what happens when you don't waste your life on the internet?

The solomon story is yet another pile of shit invented by early jews to give themselves a better history than being the little tribe of goat fuckers that they were.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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25-11-2014, 09:12 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(24-11-2014 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Actually my current concern is that multiple people go "made up story!" without answering the original question, which was:

Was polygamy practiced on this scale in the Ancient Near East?

Those are like Ron Jeremy and Wilt Chamberlain numbers. I could marry them all but no fucking way I could consummate all of them. No fucking way I'd want to.

#sigh
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25-11-2014, 11:08 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(25-11-2014 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 01:31 PM)Anti-oil Wrote:  Let’s say that it is not realistic to believe that Solomon really had 700 wives and 300 concubines and therefore we can then suspect that we are dealing with allegory. The magical numbers of “7” and “3” are widely recognized as each having a strong symbolic component to them so when we see them together we should naturally be suspicious that they are not intended literally. We can see something similar in the story of Job where Job had 7 sons and 3 daughters and 7,000 sheep and 3,000 camels. (Job 1:2-3).

The true nature of the number “7” is hinted at in the assignment of the name “Septuagint” (which comes from the Latin word for “seventy”) to the Greek translation of the Jewish Old Testament books. We have been told that this name was assigned because 70 scholars were involved in the translation project which gave birth to the Septuagint, but given the large number of apparent errors contained in this translation, we should be very suspicious of this claim. (Literalists can think, if they wish, that that many errors indicates a lack of expertise, but in reality I mean that the “errors” were created intentionally because of the difficulties in translating hidden meanings when phonetics also played a role in metaphoric assignments.)

I propose this interpretation. The number’s 3 and 7 represent types of writings. I will assign “history” to 3 and “religion works” to 7. A translation is then represented by making the number a multiple of 10 so a translation of Old Testament works is assigned the number 70. This would also mean that David’s 30 “Mighty Men” represented history borrowed from other nations and it also explains why David also had 3 other Mighty Men that were "not part of the 30", since they could represent history that actually belonged to the Hebrews and therefore did not require translation. When the numbers are then expressed as multiples of 100 or 1000, we might assume that this means it is referring to a translation of a translation or that there is some other change such as an allegorization or paraphrase of a translation. So, I propose that the "wives" and "concubines" represent foreign ideas and stories stolen from other nations to serve as "cover" for Hebrew allegory.

Solomon played a key role in the development of religious allegory which was conveyed in the story of his exchanging of “puzzles” with the Phoenician King Hiram. (When creating allegorized history, it is important to coordinate with your neighbors.) This also helps to explain why the “Song of Solomon” is included in the Old Testament since it provides many metaphoric relationships that are undoubtedly useful in deciphering this allegory.

Interesting theory. I like it! I'd go for he had nearly that many wives and concubines and then the figures were rounded. Nice.

I think the idea Anti Oil was presenting was that Soloman had 'some' "wives" and 'some' "concubines", that the numbers 700 & 300 are not even close or, at best, have been mistranslated from the numbers 7 & 3. Though more likely the notion if I read it right, is that he had more wives than concubines and that's all we know.
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25-11-2014, 11:16 PM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(24-11-2014 11:02 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Actually my current concern is that multiple people go "made up story!" without answering the original question, which was:

Was polygamy practiced on this scale in the Ancient Near East?

In terms of Kings.. you betchya all across China's history is there examples of large concubines and multiple wives. I don't know of any specific figures, but I'm sure they must of listed them as they were writing down so much. Of course there is the well known exploits of nomadic rulers like Genghis Khan, but was not marriages.

When you look it up you generally run into how China's historians are amazed by these 1 or 2 Emperors who had no concubines. So it was common in practice.

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26-11-2014, 07:49 AM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(22-11-2014 08:21 PM)Mage The Entertainer Wrote:  I read somewhere that the human mind can only handle having a relationship with about 200 people at one time max...

You're thinking of Dunbar's number, which is actually closer to 150, on average. It's also sometimes popularly called "the monkeysphere".
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26-11-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: Solomon - 1000 wives, 300 concubines
(25-11-2014 11:08 PM)OddGamer Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 02:52 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Interesting theory. I like it! I'd go for he had nearly that many wives and concubines and then the figures were rounded. Nice.

I think the idea Anti Oil was presenting was that Soloman had 'some' "wives" and 'some' "concubines", that the numbers 700 & 300 are not even close or, at best, have been mistranslated from the numbers 7 & 3. Though more likely the notion if I read it right, is that he had more wives than concubines and that's all we know.

Not exactly; what I am suggesting is that "wives" and "concubines" are metaphors for knowledge taken from other nations and employed in Hebrew allegory. Since the numbers also serve as metaphors they cannot be taken literally, so the exact number of metaphoric wives and concubines cannot be determined here, however, they are probably detailed elsewhere in the allegory under different metaphors such as items of "silver" and "gold".
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