Some Questions From Atheists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-02-2018, 02:08 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(20-02-2018 12:41 PM)Hussein Wrote:  Hello everyone,

This is my second post here, the first one being an introduction.

I'd like to know your answer as an Atheist about a couple of questions. I'd be interested in the reasons behind your answers.
Hi Hussein Smile I really hope you stick around. It'll be interesting to hear your perspective on a lot of things. Normally our news about Iran is quite filtered I think, to be able to hear from someone who actually lives there is pretty cool Smile

Quote:1. Do you categorize yourself as anti-religion/God or you are simply indifferent about it? To be more clear, would you actively oppose religion and the idea of God if you find the right opportunity? Or you just don't care about it.
As long as people don't bug me, I don't bug them. I do believe religion is a bad thing though, pretty much all religion. Even though religion has given us some wonderful things like works of art. But the magical thinking aspect of it I think is very detrimental, and we could have the good things without the bad things. So for example in politics I would be likely to support politicians who have secular values, rather than religious ones. One of those values is religious tolerance. I don't want to wipe out religion, but religious leaders frequently are intolerant both of other religions and e.g. homosexuality, so I will rather pick the secular leader who promotes religious freedom for all.

Quote:2. Would you marry a Theist?
The real question is would the theist marry me? Tongue

Quote:3. If a Theist comes to you, interested in explaining his/her version of "the truth about God" to you, is there a chance you would take him/her seriously?
It depends. I'm interested to hear people's stories, I don't like people who want to convert me. I know my own "search for truth" is over - I trust my judgment that there is no God, and it will take a lot to convince me otherwise, it's perhaps impossible. But to me ideology is less important than a person's actual character. A truly kind person, a person of integrity, can be found with any religious faith, or no faith. It's not religion that makes people good, in my view.

Quote:4. Do you think Theists and Atheists can coexist in peace, without any sort of conflict?
Absolutely. Just theists need to understand a couple of things:
  • Insulting your religion is not a crime and getting pissed off that people do it is pointless. If your God is that weak that he needs you to rush to his defence why are you even worshiping him/her/it?
  • Pushing religion into politics is bad. It doesn't matter who's religion. I am not saying secular values are best because I'm an atheist, even if I was religious, there are many religions in the world and it's not fair to favour one above another, so laws must be made and enforced on a secular basis.
  • As atheists we don't want to be forced to follow some religious agenda, so long as theists aren't seeking us out and trying to make us be Christian/Muslim/Hindu or whatever, we're fine.


Quote:5. Finally, what is your most high value in life? The one with the highest priority and significance, if you can name one.
For myself... I kind of want to do something useful with my life. I want to solve a problem that will help people, or something along those lines. I don't want to reach the end of my life having maximised shareholder value...

Quote:I'd appreciate your answers,
Peace be with you all
Credit to you for trying to understand Smile It's unusual.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 02:48 AM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2018 04:18 AM by Hussein.)
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(20-02-2018 02:58 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Well, perhaps "wasted" is too strong a word. I could have spent my time better, but I did learn a fair amount. I was studying Idries Shah's books, and he often referred to Rumi, Saadi, Jami, Hafiz, Attar, and others who you are no doubt familiar with. I also read certain translations of books by each of those writers. I thought the iconoclastic Sufi interpretation of Islam made the best sense of theism, and was disappointed when the bottom fell out for me.

I am now content with my atheism, which I think preserves the best part of that iconoclasm.

I have never studied the works of Idries Shah. I'll look into it.

It's great that you are acquainted with those Sufi poets, many of us Iranians believe they are the carriers of the treasures of one of the oldest nations on the earth. Hafiz is unique in eliminating the material/spiritual dichotomy through the form of his poems, and this is truly spectacular. He mostly talks about wine, women and their beauty, yet it's hard not to see spirituality embedded throughout his poems. In fact there are a minority who actually believe Hafiz was not a mystic at all, he simply loved women and wine!

BTW, it's sad that your journey in Sufism was disappointing, but if you find the lack of dichotomy in your current worldview, maybe you are with Sufis in this core message Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Hussein's post
21-02-2018, 04:16 AM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2018 04:37 AM by Hussein.)
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 02:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  Hi Hussein Smile I really hope you stick around. It'll be interesting to hear your perspective on a lot of things. Normally our news about Iran is quite filtered I think, to be able to hear from someone who actually lives there is pretty cool Smile

Thank you. I didn't expected such a friendly attitude in this forum, atheists in Iran are usually damaged from religion and are unfortunately quite hostile towards religion and the religious. I'm pleased to understand this community is tolerant towards the religious people. I appreciate your welcoming attitude Smile

Quote:[*]Insulting your religion is not a crime and getting pissed off that people do it is pointless. If your God is that weak that he needs you to rush to his defence why are you even worshiping him/her/it?
I agree that religious people should be tolerant about insults and mocking. But don't you think such acts would be immoral? Imagine a child from a religious family who is developing his identity, deeply woven with religious teachings. I think insulting and mocking his religion would definitely damage his/her development, self-esteem and sense of identity I think it's also the case with adults who have not reached a certain level of personality development. What do you think?

Quote:I want to solve a problem that will help people, or something along those lines.
Good luck with that Thumbsup Do you mean something in line of scientific/technological advancement or something in line of volunteering and altruistic activities?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 04:32 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
At work.

"Don't you think mocking a developing child's..... "

Just to point out. This is not what is generally happening, though.

Unless...... you are insinuating something about the minds of 'Believers' ?

Consider

And yes, the reply above is partly in jest. Though I hope a valid highlight non the less.

Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 04:34 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 12:01 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(20-02-2018 08:28 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  we can lead by example and speak out against injustice.

I find your ideas and values respectable and quite in-line what I believe to be right. An interesting question that raises for me is that how much "faith" you put into in such beliefs. Do you have such a strong faith in your values that you actively follow them and integrate them in you daily life? How much your most important value affect your daily actions?

Maybe I'm not accurate when I'm talking about "faith", but I think adhering to values, especially such idealistic values, requires some sort of faith. Reason alone wouldn't suffice IMO.

I have confidence in them, based on experience. I've seen people improve their behaviour based on mine, I've seen people improve based on good examples from others, and I've improved my behaviour following the examples of others. I've also seen the reverse, that bad examples lead to bad behaviour. So this is all evidence-based.

Quote:
Quote:I'm sorry to hear about the situation you experience. I'm afraid I don't know enough about that to be able to offer any sensible suggestions. Once situation gets to the point of such violence, I suppose that trying to change attitudes is still the way to go, but doing so is going to be a lot harder.
Do you think violence can be a solution in extreme situations like this? I mean, do you think fighting the war can be the right choice in such circumstances?

I'm very torn on the idea of war, but I can see how it could seem like the only option in extreme cases. Deciding exactly when this point has been reached would be very difficult, as would making sure there aren't any other motivations for the war.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
21-02-2018, 04:36 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:16 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 02:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  Hi Hussein Smile I really hope you stick around. It'll be interesting to hear your perspective on a lot of things. Normally our news about Iran is quite filtered I think, to be able to hear from someone who actually lives there is pretty cool Smile

Thank you. I didn't expected such a friendly attitude in this forum, atheists in Iran are usually damaged from religion and are unfortunately quite hostile towards religion and the religious. I'm pleased to understand this community is tolerant towards the religious people. I appreciate your welcome Smile
Hmm. I must warn you that I can turn hostile myself and the same is true of others. If you keep up the attitude you've shown so far I think we'll be friends, but I find that a lot of religious people struggle here, simply because there are no limits. We don't respect your God, it can be quite... upsetting, especially if you say something and get mocked in return. Just be prepared to have a thick skin Smile I do enjoy that your English is excellent, it makes it so much easier to communicate Smile

Quote:
Quote:[*]Insulting your religion is not a crime and getting pissed off that people do it is pointless. If your God is that weak that he needs you to rush to his defence why are you even worshiping him/her/it?
I agree that religious people should be tolerant about insults and mocking. But don't you think such acts would be immoral? Imagine a child from a religious family who is developing his identity, deeply woven with religious teachings. I think insulting and mocking his religion would definitely damage his/her development, self-esteem and sense of identity I think it's also the case with adults who have not reached a certain level of personality development. What do you think?
I don't think many of us are into dicking around crushing the worldviews of little kids Wink I'm talking about for example, making cartoons of the prophet Mohammed. That's absolutely not something worth getting angry about.

Quote:
Quote:I want to solve a problem that will help people, or something along those lines.
Good luck with that Thumbsup Do you mean something in line of scientific/technological advancement or something in line of volunteering and altruistic activities?
Either or both Smile My belief is that some low-level technology could transform a lot of lives, without all the going off to space and everything else that people go on about. One of my favourite inventions that I read about a long time ago is a basic refrigerator that uses no electricity - it's called a "Pot within a pot" and involves using evaporation to cool the inner pot. It was invented by some guy living in a village in Sudan if I recall correctly. Unfortunately I've lost the book that describes it.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 04:56 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(20-02-2018 12:41 PM)Hussein Wrote:  1. Do you categorize yourself as anti-religion/God or you are simply indifferent about it? To be more clear, would you actively oppose religion and the idea of God if you find the right opportunity? Or you just don't care about it.

2. Would you marry a Theist?

3. If a Theist comes to you, interested in explaining his/her version of "the truth about God" to you, is there a chance you would take him/her seriously?

4. Do you think Theists and Atheists can coexist in peace, without any sort of conflict?

5. Finally, what is your most high value in life? The one with the highest priority and significance, if you can name one.

1. I'm personally mostly indifferent. I only oppose religion in respect of trying to push creationism as "truth" or even "an alternative truth" in schools.

2. Did marry a Theist, in a church and everything.

3. It depends on how the conversation goes. I'm happy to talk to anybody about anything. I'm happy to hear somebodies point of view all day long. However, in my experience, most theists tend to come in all "this is what I believe" and then it swiftly turns into "how do you answer X? You are wrong" from their side. I know Atheists are similar in so much as some might attack others with knowledge, although I don't really have the time or effort to do that, and don't expect it the other

4. I do, although it'd take a lot of work for that to happen I think.

5. For me it's family. I was brought up to believe that you have nothing in this life, except your family, so you need to represent the family name and look after each other. As I've gotten older, I mainly focus on my family unit, with my wife and daughter, but my extended family is still very important to me.

I'm training for a 10K run, read about it in my blog :
Lost In Pace - A Running Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 04:57 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:34 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I have confidence in them, based on experience. I've seen people improve their behaviour based on mine, I've seen people improve based on good examples from others, and I've improved my behaviour following the examples of others. I've also seen the reverse, that bad examples lead to bad behaviour. So this is all evidence-based.
Now I understand your methods are based on evidence, which is great. But I meant faith in your "value", do you also have any evidence in favor of "protecting the innocent is valuable" or it's simply a belief and a matter of faith in that belief?

Quote:I'm very torn on the idea of war, but I can see how it could seem like the only option in extreme cases. Deciding exactly when this point has been reached would be very difficult, as would making sure there aren't any other motivations for the war.
Very true.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:10 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  Hmm. I must warn you that I can turn hostile myself and the same is true of others. If you keep up the attitude you've shown so far I think we'll be friends, but I find that a lot of religious people struggle here, simply because there are no limits. We don't respect your God, it can be quite... upsetting, especially if you say something and get mocked in return. Just be prepared to have a thick skin Smile I do enjoy that your English is excellent, it makes it so much easier to communicate Smile
Laugh out load Sure, I'll be observant.

Quote:I don't think many of us are into dicking around crushing the worldviews of little kids Wink I'm talking about for example, making cartoons of the prophet Mohammed. That's absolutely not something worth getting angry about.
I'm living in a Muslim majority country and I can assure you those cartoons widely disturb the people here. And the kid will see the cartoon anyway, right? It might not be easy for you to realize how much the holy figures are woven with the identify of the believers. Insulting those figures is usually more damaging than insulting them. It's like mocking someone's mother for example. Hope I can communicate it effectively.

Again, I'm quite against responding such insults and mocking with hate and insult. The best way is to inform others that such acts would harm many of the believers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:12 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:16 AM)Hussein Wrote:  Thank you. I didn't expected such a friendly attitude in this forum, atheists in Iran are usually damaged from religion and are unfortunately quite hostile towards religion and the religious. I'm pleased to understand this community is tolerant towards the religious people. I appreciate your welcoming attitude Smile

I'm too hostile toward religion, usually also toward religious as most believers I meet are just bunch of clowns. But since you aren't threatening anyone with hell fire or islam version of it I see no reason for hostility.

Quote:I agree that religious people should be tolerant about insults and mocking.

They just shouldn't try take people to courts when hearing that their religion is bunch of hastily cobbled shit. Other than that they have every right to answer insult with insult, even if this is hardly productive.

Quote:But don't you think such acts would be immoral? Imagine a child from a religious family who is developing his identity, deeply woven with religious teachings. I think insulting and mocking his religion would definitely damage his/her development, self-esteem and sense of identity I think it's also the case with adults who have not reached a certain level of personality development. What do you think?

Tough shit. I find religious superstitions to be laughable and worthy only of mockery and scorn. Someone don't like when his favorite ancient fables are laughed at? Then that certain someone shouldn't start preaching. I say preaching cause I don't randomly talk to theists to say what I think about their fables.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: