Some Questions From Atheists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-02-2018, 05:16 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:56 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  For me it's family. I was brought up to believe that you have nothing in this life, except your family, so you need to represent the family name and look after each other. As I've gotten older, I mainly focus on my family unit, with my wife and daughter, but my extended family is still very important to me.

That's great. I wish happiness, prosperity and well-being for your family, you'll need a few more kids I guess Big Grin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Hussein's post
21-02-2018, 05:17 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:16 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 04:56 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  For me it's family. I was brought up to believe that you have nothing in this life, except your family, so you need to represent the family name and look after each other. As I've gotten older, I mainly focus on my family unit, with my wife and daughter, but my extended family is still very important to me.

That's great. I wish happiness, prosperity and well-being for your family, you'll need a few more kids I guess Big Grin
Kids are great, but one is enough Laugh out load

I'm training for a 10K run, read about it in my blog :
Lost In Pace - A Running Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:28 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  They just shouldn't try take people to courts when hearing that their religion is bunch of hastily cobbled shit. Other than that they have every right to answer insult with insult, even if this is hardly productive.

It depends on the society, I think. In a secular society, sure, you are right. But in my country mockery can cause instability and disturbance in the society, people would be marching in the street to protest the mockery, causing many businesses to go off for a day, which would in turn be a waste of resources for the government. So enforcing laws to prevent it is reasonable IMO, what's your thoughts?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:28 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 04:57 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 04:34 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I have confidence in them, based on experience. I've seen people improve their behaviour based on mine, I've seen people improve based on good examples from others, and I've improved my behaviour following the examples of others. I've also seen the reverse, that bad examples lead to bad behaviour. So this is all evidence-based.
Now I understand your methods are based on evidence, which is great. But I meant faith in your "value", do you also have any evidence in favor of "protecting the innocent is valuable" or it's simply a belief and a matter of faith in that belief?

Quote:I'm very torn on the idea of war, but I can see how it could seem like the only option in extreme cases. Deciding exactly when this point has been reached would be very difficult, as would making sure there aren't any other motivations for the war.
Very true.

Value is completely subjective, so no, I can't offer evidence for why anything is valuable. I can only say that it is valuable to me. I can explain why this is, and why I would hope other people would find it valuable too, but that's as far as it can go.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:37 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Value is completely subjective, so no, I can't offer evidence for why anything is valuable. I can only say that it is valuable to me. I can explain why this is, and why I would hope other people would find it valuable too, but that's as far as it can go.

I'm interested to know wether:
1. One can describe your values as a "belief"
2. One can describe your commitment to your value as "faith"
or not.

I'm aware that atheists commonly avoid using these words, I'm not really intending to push these concepts, I'm simply interested to understand whether the nature of your commitment to these values is the same as the nature of my commitment to my values or not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 05:43 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(20-02-2018 12:41 PM)Hussein Wrote:  1. Do you categorize yourself as anti-religion/God or you are simply indifferent about it?

In order to address this question, I'd say I'm an ignostic atheist. God and/or gods simply don't exist. End of story.

Quote:2. Would you marry a Theist?

Nope. That'd be an insurmountable difference.

Quote:3. If a Theist comes to you, interested in explaining his/her version of "the truth about God" to you, is there a chance you would take him/her seriously?

Nope. There is no "truth" about gods. Other than of course that they don't exist.

Quote:4. Do you think Theists and Atheists can coexist in peace, without any sort of conflict?

Yes, definitely. Where I live is a perfect example.

Quote:5. Finally, what is your most high value in life? The one with the highest priority and significance, if you can name one.

I can't define a single highest value in my life. I have multiple values that share an equal footing in my priorities. Life itself; love; truth; equality; honesty; non-aggression; respect; true democracy; tolerance; universal health and education..... and so my list goes on.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
21-02-2018, 05:44 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 12:25 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(20-02-2018 03:50 PM)julep Wrote:  A brief and far from comprehensive peek:

I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household in the south United States. My religion taught that my natural state as a human, and especially as a female, was repulsive to god, that every impulse I had was sinful. Any earthly pleasure...sunshine, a song, a book...was at best a distraction from what should be my proper focus, which was to be on god; at worse it was a way for the devil to get me. I was taught that as a female, I was morally inferior to all males; I was to submit myself to them. I was taught that if any male had a sexual impulse towards me, it was because I had led him on in some way. I was told that my high school science teachers were teaching me lies; I was told that black people had been deemed inferior by god; I was told lie after lie after lie.

My sect believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" (although my father preferred a belt or occasionally his fist) so there was a lot of physical punishment to keep me on the straight and narrow.

What harm did this cause? It made it very difficult for me to enjoy being alive. It kept me preoccupied with my grimy soul and the need to cleanse it when I could have been helping others. It made it hard for me to form healthy romantic relationships. It made me judgmental and neglectful of wonderful people who could have used my friendship or support. It took years for me to work my way through it and understand what had happened to me, to finally be able to open to the world and take an active position.

Not everyone who grows up a fundamentalist Christian has this experience. Some people are a better fit, some people have more functional families than mine. My circumstances are a combination of family dynamics and religion and culture. Still, the messages of my childhood--"you are a vile sinner, females are inferior, the world is a trap"--run throughout Christianity. They are damaging to straight A students like me who take them seriously enough to try to live according to them.

That's quite unfortunate, it's great that you have managed to find your way to where you are now. Hope you are living at peace.

As you said it's not simply religion, there are other factors involved here I think.

Quote:"you are a vile sinner, females are inferior, the world is a trap"--run throughout Christianity
Although as a Muslim I believe in the authenticity of Christianity and Judaism in their original forms, we believe many Christian beliefs such as the inferior spiritual position of females, trinity, substitutionary atonement, etc. are all invalid and inauthentic.

However the teaching that "the world is a trap" is also present in Islam and I think if it is taught to children the right way, it can help them as they grow up. Developing strong attachment to that which is transient to experience extreme euphoria will certainly have negative consequence and I think it is the root of most the suffering in the world. So I think in some sense "the world is a trap" is not necessarily a bad teaching. What do you think?

I think "the world is a trap" is a terrible teaching. Especially the way it is taught in religions, with the implication that the "trap" has been set intentionally, that the world is a test and if a human "fails" at it, there's the punishment of damnation.

I also vehemently disagree with the philosophical position that attachment to the transient is undesirable simply because of that quality. I prefer to be attached, to love things that will end deeply while I can, and then to grieve their loss when that happens. I find no use whatsoever in cultivating detachment. (Especially if what one is supposed to be attached to instead are the imaginary ideas of god and heaven.)

As for the dreaded "extreme euphoria," I'm not even sure what you mean by that and why it is so dangerous. I get "extreme euphoria" when I'm playing music sometimes, and as far as I know the only consequences of that are the pleasure of the audience and my own dedication to practicing harder so that I can have that feeling again sometime.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like julep's post
21-02-2018, 05:49 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:28 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 05:12 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  They just shouldn't try take people to courts when hearing that their religion is bunch of hastily cobbled shit. Other than that they have every right to answer insult with insult, even if this is hardly productive.

It depends on the society, I think. In a secular society, sure, you are right. But in my country mockery can cause instability and disturbance in the society, people would be marching in the street to protest the mockery, causing many businesses to go off for a day, which would in turn be a waste of resources for the government. So enforcing laws to prevent it is reasonable IMO, what's your thoughts?

My thoughts? It seems that your society is unreasonable if simple mockery of fairy tales it hold dear would have so big effect.

Law preventing religion from being ridiculed is just insult to freedom and common sense given how laughable religion claims are.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
21-02-2018, 06:22 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:44 AM)julep Wrote:  I think "the world is a trap" is a terrible teaching. Especially the way it is taught in religions, with the implication that the "trap" has been set intentionally, that the world is a test and if a human "fails" at it, there's the punishment of damnation.

I also vehemently disagree with the philosophical position that attachment to the transient is undesirable simply because of that quality. I prefer to be attached, to love things that will end deeply while I can, and then to grieve their loss when that happens. I find no use whatsoever in cultivating detachment. (Especially if what one is supposed to be attached to instead are the imaginary ideas of god and heaven.)

As for the dreaded "extreme euphoria," I'm not even sure what you mean by that and why it is so dangerous. I get "extreme euphoria" when I'm playing music sometimes, and as far as I know the only consequences of that are the pleasure of the audience and my own dedication to practicing harder so that I can have that feeling again sometime.

I respect your opinion, and I understand you are aware of the cost of attachments and make informed choices to be attached.

Considering what you said, I think at the very least it's reasonable to inform children that strong attachment will cause suffering. Whether they make the choice to be strongly attached, like you do, or not. Is their own choice.

Whether the dread and fear of being "trapped" in the world should be thought to children is something that you made me think about it. I'm not sure what to say about it right now.

Quote:I'm not even sure what you mean by that and why it is so dangerous
I think it's dangerous because extreme euphoria will be followed by extreme suffering once the source of pleasure ceases. Why "dangerous"? because one can never know whether he/she can bear the consequential suffering or not, so there is a big risk of not being able to bear the cost of attachment.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-02-2018, 06:28 AM
RE: Some Questions From Atheists
(21-02-2018 05:37 AM)Hussein Wrote:  
(21-02-2018 05:28 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Value is completely subjective, so no, I can't offer evidence for why anything is valuable. I can only say that it is valuable to me. I can explain why this is, and why I would hope other people would find it valuable too, but that's as far as it can go.

I'm interested to know wether:
1. One can describe your values as a "belief"
2. One can describe your commitment to your value as "faith"
or not.

I'm aware that atheists commonly avoid using these words, I'm not really intending to push these concepts, I'm simply interested to understand whether the nature of your commitment to these values is the same as the nature of my commitment to my values or not.

1. No, I don't think so. It's a statement about my own preferences. I don't have to have beliefs about those, I have direct access to them. I'm not making any claim about my values outside of my brain/mind.

2. I don't know how that word would apply either. I'm not dogmatically committed to anything. I'm quite prepared to change my values after hearing different arguments, gaining more experience and thinking things through. My values are a summary of how I feel about things, at any particular time. Again, I know what my values are, so I don't need to have faith that my values are... my values.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: