Some Questions for the Theists
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14-08-2015, 06:35 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 05:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Hostile Non-Biblical Pagan Accounts

Apparently taken from
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-...the-bible/

Which is a website for a book where the author is described as:
J. Warner Wallace is a cold-case homicide detective, adjunct professor of apologetics at Biola University, ....

What we have there is hardly an unbiased set of claims. Skimming the text they look like things that have been debunked many times.

Pops, you got anything that is a non-christian account of Jesus written at the time and that isn't just talking about christians or what christians claim?

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14-08-2015, 06:39 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 06:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Xian is a place in China or something and has little to do with anything we're discussing. It isn't a real word in the context you were using. Thank you.

It is also an abbreviation for Christian

Quote:When writing the name "Christ," it is quite common to abbreviate it to X or x, representing the first letter (chi) of the Greek XPICTOC khristos. For example, "xmas" is a common abbreviation of "Christmas." "Xian" just means "Christian."

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the use of the abbreviation "xian" or "xtian" for "Christian" dates back at least as far as 1634. Before that, it was more usual to take the first two letters of XPICTOC, and write "xpian" for "Christian." Priests would record Christenings using the shorthand "xpen" or "xpn."

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14-08-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 06:35 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 05:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Hostile Non-Biblical Pagan Accounts

Apparently taken from
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/is-...the-bible/

Which is a website for a book where the author is described as:
J. Warner Wallace is a cold-case homicide detective, adjunct professor of apologetics at Biola University, ....

What we have there is hardly an unbiased set of claims. Skimming the text they look like things that have been debunked many times.

Pops, you got anything that is a non-christian account of Jesus written at the time and that isn't just talking about christians or what christians claim?
Sure do, the post right after the one you just cited is from Wikipedia. Thanks.
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14-08-2015, 06:42 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 06:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 06:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Xian is a place in China or something and has little to do with anything we're discussing. It isn't a real word in the context you were using. Thank you.

It is also an abbreviation for Christian

Quote:When writing the name "Christ," it is quite common to abbreviate it to X or x, representing the first letter (chi) of the Greek XPICTOC khristos. For example, "xmas" is a common abbreviation of "Christmas." "Xian" just means "Christian."

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the use of the abbreviation "xian" or "xtian" for "Christian" dates back at least as far as 1634. Before that, it was more usual to take the first two letters of XPICTOC, and write "xpian" for "Christian." Priests would record Christenings using the shorthand "xpen" or "xpn."
That makes sense, thank you for clarifying.
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14-08-2015, 06:48 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 06:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 06:35 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Pops, you got anything that is a non-christian account of Jesus written at the time and that isn't just talking about christians or what christians claim?
Sure do, the post right after the one you just cited is from Wikipedia. Thanks.

Bzzt. Sorry. Try again.

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14-08-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
Historicity of Jesus
The historicity of Jesus concerns whether Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical figure, whether the episodes portrayed in the gospels can be confirmed as historical events as opposed to myth, legend, or fiction, and the weighing of the evidence relating to his life.[1][page needed][2]:168–173 Historicity is the historical actuality[3] or authenticity[4] of a person or event, as opposed to being a myth, legend, or fiction.

The historicity of Jesus is distinct from the related study of the historical Jesus, which refers to scholarly reconstructions of the life of Jesus based primarily on critical analysis of the gospel texts.[5][6][7]

Since the 18th century, scholars have attempted to reconstruct the life of the historical Jesus, developing historical-critical methods for analysing the available texts. The only sources are documentary; in conjunction with Biblical texts such as the Pauline epistles and the synoptic Gospels, three passages in non-Christian works have been used to support the historicity of Jesus: two in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus, and one from the Roman historian Tacitus. Although the authenticity of all three has been questioned, and one is generally accepted as having been altered by Christians, most scholars believe they are at least partially authentic.

There is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically,[8][9][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels.[nb 5][15][nb 6][2]:168–173 While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory.[18][nb 8][20][21][22] Certain scholars, particularly in Europe, have recently made the case that while there are a number of plausible "Jesuses" that could have existed, there can be no certainty as to which Jesus was the historical Jesus, and that there should also be more scholarly research and debate on this topic.[23][24]
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14-08-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
Thank goodness for Google - were only truth resides.

http://www.khq.com/story/27808304/finall...california

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14-08-2015, 07:44 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
I think I'm done casting pearls before swine. ..

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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14-08-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 07:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Historicity of Jesus
The historicity of Jesus concerns whether Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical figure, whether the episodes portrayed in the gospels can be confirmed as historical events as opposed to myth, legend, or fiction, and the weighing of the evidence relating to his life.[1][page needed][2]:168–173 Historicity is the historical actuality[3] or authenticity[4] of a person or event, as opposed to being a myth, legend, or fiction.

The historicity of Jesus is distinct from the related study of the historical Jesus, which refers to scholarly reconstructions of the life of Jesus based primarily on critical analysis of the gospel texts.[5][6][7]

Since the 18th century, scholars have attempted to reconstruct the life of the historical Jesus, developing historical-critical methods for analysing the available texts. The only sources are documentary; in conjunction with Biblical texts such as the Pauline epistles and the synoptic Gospels, three passages in non-Christian works have been used to support the historicity of Jesus: two in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus, and one from the Roman historian Tacitus. Although the authenticity of all three has been questioned, and one is generally accepted as having been altered by Christians, most scholars believe they are at least partially authentic.

There is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically,[8][9][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels.[nb 5][15][nb 6][2]:168–173 While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory.[18][nb 8][20][21][22] Certain scholars, particularly in Europe, have recently made the case that while there are a number of plausible "Jesuses" that could have existed, there can be no certainty as to which Jesus was the historical Jesus, and that there should also be more scholarly research and debate on this topic.[23][24]

While I am not a "myther"....some of the new evidence and critical analysis is thought provoking.....closed minds don't discover new truths.....now that being said, I personally lean towards a man named jesus of nazareth physically existed, he may have even been a charismatic, yet delusional fellow who drew in people who exaggerated his doings with each retelling....but there are some very intruiging different angles out there. Just because the majority accept the systemic construction of jesus historicty, and history, does not mean it could not have predicated on a cleverly constructed story...people love stories don't they? Remember...at one point the vast majority of the world thought it was flat.....and when a minority purported a different view, that the world is spherical, they were met with derision, and even threats of death due to heresy. Alas eventually this minorities view was accepted as the overwhelming supportive evidence could no longer be ignored.

Again, I am not a myther, but I am open minded to new and different perspectives, and always hungry for more information...I suggest you open your mind as well pops, a closed mind doesn't work very well.....like a parachute...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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14-08-2015, 08:01 PM
RE: Some Questions for the Theists
(14-08-2015 07:54 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(14-08-2015 07:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Historicity of Jesus
The historicity of Jesus concerns whether Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical figure, whether the episodes portrayed in the gospels can be confirmed as historical events as opposed to myth, legend, or fiction, and the weighing of the evidence relating to his life.[1][page needed][2]:168–173 Historicity is the historical actuality[3] or authenticity[4] of a person or event, as opposed to being a myth, legend, or fiction.

The historicity of Jesus is distinct from the related study of the historical Jesus, which refers to scholarly reconstructions of the life of Jesus based primarily on critical analysis of the gospel texts.[5][6][7]

Since the 18th century, scholars have attempted to reconstruct the life of the historical Jesus, developing historical-critical methods for analysing the available texts. The only sources are documentary; in conjunction with Biblical texts such as the Pauline epistles and the synoptic Gospels, three passages in non-Christian works have been used to support the historicity of Jesus: two in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus, and one from the Roman historian Tacitus. Although the authenticity of all three has been questioned, and one is generally accepted as having been altered by Christians, most scholars believe they are at least partially authentic.

There is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically,[8][9][nb 1][nb 2][nb 3][nb 4] although biblical scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels.[nb 5][15][nb 6][2]:168–173 While scholars have sometimes criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness,[nb 7] with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed, known as the Christ myth theory.[18][nb 8][20][21][22] Certain scholars, particularly in Europe, have recently made the case that while there are a number of plausible "Jesuses" that could have existed, there can be no certainty as to which Jesus was the historical Jesus, and that there should also be more scholarly research and debate on this topic.[23][24]

While I am not a "myther"....some of the new evidence and critical analysis is thought provoking.....closed minds don't discover new truths.....now that being said, I personally lean towards a man named jesus of nazareth physically existed, he may have even been a charismatic, yet delusional fellow who drew in people who exaggerated his doings with each retelling....but there are some very intruiging different angles out there. Just because the majority accept the systemic construction of jesus historicty, and history, does not mean it could not have predicated on a cleverly constructed story...people love stories don't they? Remember...at one point the vast majority of the world thought it was flat.....and when a minority purported a different view, that the world is spherical, they were met with derision, and even threats of death due to heresy. Alas eventually this minorities view was accepted as the overwhelming supportive evidence could no longer be ignored.

Again, I am not a myther, but I am open minded to new and different perspectives, and always hungry for more information...I suggest you open your mind as well pops, a closed mind doesn't work very well.....like a parachute...
Thanks for your concern but believe me its wide open buddy. Thank you.
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