Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-02-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
Egor: It does matter. The bible is not a reliable source at all.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-02-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
I don't see any reason to deny the existence of a man named Jesus who was born in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth. Just as I have no reason not to believe a person who tells me they live next door to a guy name Bob.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-02-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
(24-02-2012 01:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  We live now, and we have the words of Christ (most accurately recorded in the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ, IMHO). Those words are enough to transform us into what Jesus was and to make us one with Christ and one in Christ.

[Image: creepy-willy-wonka-meme-generator-oh-rea...38d49d.jpg]

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
24-02-2012, 12:30 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
What about the fact that he apparently lived during a time where there was no Nazareth? Wouldn't it be reasonable to question that? I mean if someone was telling me about a guy who came from Midgar I'd probably wonder if he was telling the truth.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-02-2012, 02:11 PM
 
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
(24-02-2012 12:30 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  What about the fact that he apparently lived during a time where there was no Nazareth? Wouldn't it be reasonable to question that? I mean if someone was telling me about a guy who came from Midgar I'd probably wonder if he was telling the truth.

It doesn't matter. We're 2000 years down the road. Jesus turning water into wine is only useful in its symbolic meaning--we weren't there to see it. And there are lots of lost towns, for instance in England, that are a lot less than 2000 years old, but again, it doesn't matter.

Christ is spiritual. You could say that none of it ever happened in history, and it wouldn't matter. What matters is whether the information needed to be transformed into Christ is present in today's Gospel message, and it is.

Oh, I understand it would undermine Christianity if it never happened. But Christianity is undermining itself, anyway. In 30 years, you won't even recognize it. The Christian Church will be nothing more than private schools with uniforms, positive thinking messages on Sunday, a general watered-down type of spirituality based mostly on civil morality, a political front for whatever part they back, and that's it.

Many contemporary Gospel musicians, for instance, will not mention Jesus at all. They might mention God, but never Jesus, and definitely never Christ. Crosses are also becoming harder to find around the Church. Globes are more prevalent.

Joel Osteen is the pattern for success, all the mega-churches follow that lead, and the mega-churches define Christianity in America. The Christian Church has been infected with the atheistic influence, and it will die from it. Christians today are just polishing the brass on the Titanic.

In the next thirty years, even ministers and priests will be doubting whether Jesus ever existed. But I’m with Jesus Christ on this one: “Let the dead bury the dead.” Christ is alive in everyone who has become one in Christ and one with Christ. We know he exists currently. What happened 2000 years ago is of little consequence.
Quote this message in a reply
24-02-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
"What happened 2000 years ago is of little consequence." - Egor

Oh how I wish this were true. If it were this site wouldn't even exist.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes lucradis's post
24-02-2012, 03:07 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  I understand it would undermine Christianity if [the life and resurrection of Jesus] never happened.

Yes, removing the foundational pillar of faith is the very definition of undermining.


(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  It doesn't matter.
(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  Jesus turning water into wine is only useful in its symbolic meaning
(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  You could say that none of it ever happened in history, and it wouldn't matter.
(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  What matters is whether the information needed to be transformed into Christ is present in today's Gospel message, and it is.

Okay, got it. Christ need not be a person who bled and died and zombied. He is an ideal to which you aspire. A standard to which you hold yourself and others. He need not have actually existed because, to you, it's all about what he stands for. Love, neighborliness, peace, patience, faithfulness, etc. The ideas that he promulgated are the key to good morality, and it does not hinge on whether those ideas are told via fiction or history.


(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  The Christian Church will be nothing more than private schools with uniforms, positive thinking messages on Sunday, a general watered-down type of spirituality [...]
(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  In the next thirty years, even ministers and priests will be doubting whether Jesus ever existed.

Sure. Like you said, it doesn't matter and it's all about the ideal of Jesus and his positive thinking, not whether he was the very real son of God.


(24-02-2012 02:11 PM)He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named Wrote:  Christ is alive in everyone who has become one in Christ and one with Christ. We know he exists currently.

Right, as an ideal, in our hearts. Like our dead relatives.



Sooooo..... What's the problem?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-02-2012, 04:12 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
(24-02-2012 01:34 AM)Egor Wrote:  The history of Jesus Christ doesn’t matter. Probably he existed as a person, definitely the Gospels tell us about Christ and how to be one with Christ. Christ is God, specifically God conscious of Himself from inside His Creation.

We do not have unbiased historical records of Jesus of Nazareth, but it doesn’t matter. The Gospels have survived from that time. We don’t live in 30 AD, so the physical reality of Jesus does nothing for us. We live now, and we have the words of Christ (most accurately recorded in the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ, IMHO). Those words are enough to transform us into what Jesus was and to make us one with Christ and one in Christ.

Keep in mind, every bit as much as it is impossible to know if Jesus lived historically, it is impossible to know if he didn’t. Apparently God has this thing about spiritual revelation and faith. He seems to place it above history and science. Go figure.

I have figured ,and see any supranormal delights inherent in the Universe, for followers of this sadistic lunatic, far outweighed by humanity's historical suffering.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mr Woof's post
24-02-2012, 06:48 PM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
I got this from a Christian site:

The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."
Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus’ disciples and recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one, deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded.

Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past:
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."


The second account could easily be a rumor.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if any real person named Jesus actually lived. If he did he wasn't the son of god. No messiah. So Christian proof of a preacher named Yeshu doesn't really mean anything, true or not. If you think about it, all myths have some real beginning then get completely out of rational belief once they are allowed to not be required to be rational, all based on the concept that god is all powerful..

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2012, 01:00 AM
RE: Some brief Thoughts on Jesus
Those Christians who say that Jesus perhaps didn't live at all are turning their faith position into a joke. Is Christianity simply an exercise in sociology, literature, psychology?..... most of which very badly done.

In accordance with the way Christianity has evolved, issues such as The Atonement, Grace, Crusifixion, Salvation etc are the essentials of belief in a transcending and transformational historical happening to a man.

I am not a believer, but become annoyed when so called Christians utilize specific bits and pieces of alleged doctrine simply to feed their egos. In doing this any worthy poetry or prose, througout the ages, could be given religious value and in many cases with far greater justification.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: