Some straight bull...
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10-01-2016, 10:58 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:54 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Lucky both of you! I've had to delouse mine, before. Confused

Yeah, some Jainists wouldn't do that, either. Some even refuse to bathe, for fear that they might kill some of the bacteria that's inhabiting their skin.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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10-01-2016, 11:01 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:51 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was in a bad spot. I'd always been sort of negative or pessimistic. For a couple of years before 2011 I had been putting myself and close family through exponential amounts of pain. Always having a quite but strong will I fought to change my own course. I had grown and experienced much by my own hand through ruthless indecision and hidden selfishness. Despite my seemingly best attempts I could not climb myself out of the pit I had dug. Changes were being made. Slowly. I thought I was doing better, but due to high threshold or embracing negativity as motivation I blinded myself to the obvious.

I nearly killed the mother of one of my children out of not rage exactly, but need, as I was trying to advance from where I was for multiple reasons and she was bent on self gratification(destruction) regardless of what was at stake(child). So anyway yeah, really, really almost ruined the lives of two families, more importantly messing up the chances of a child to have a fair chance. So I didn't kill her. I stopped after methodically chasing her in a calm composed manner for ~20 minutes.

Maybe the next day, I'm not sure. 7-30-11 I was driving home from work in my normal angry, critical state. I remember driving on the highway and the radio fading out. It was peculiar so I adjusted the volume and frequency to no avail whatsoever.

I remember after that feeling a wonderful sense of relief. A sense of all burdens such as anger, hatred, spite, vengeance, malice where taken away from me. These things that weighed me down and made me so destructive where lifted from my shoulders. It was overwhelming. Don't recall crying before that. But years of joy ran freely down my face as I sobbed in joy and gratitude. I was shown a lot, mostly personal really. I recall flashes of memories long forgotten brought to the forefront, shown in holy different light, significance, and necessity. I was shown that through all steps in my life and even prior to my birth that not only where my growing pains necessarily, but that God was their through all of it contrary to my complete disbelief the majority of the time. I remember many things came to me in a different view or understanding that seemed complete and unquestionable. Not because of authority necessarily, but it was just that level of understanding, it was complete in some way. I remember being in utter awe at the miraculousness of the things that had transpired, and newly motivated and driven with a whole different attitude towards life. I was very grateful, and still am. I recall the radio fading back in and kinda realising it was done or whatever. I got home, found what I could to write on(the invoice book) and tried to write what I could remember. Like I said what came out seems to be more of a moral guide than a recollection of the event itself.

That pretty much covers it. I have had other subsequent verifications I guess you could call it, also, of varied degrees and nature.

That's it I guess.

Peace


We have no reason (none, zero, zip, zilch, nada) to believe anything you have to say, given your recorded history of repeated dishonest bullshit on this forum.

Even assuming what you have said is true, that's nowhere close to being evidence for anything supernatural or miraculous, let alone the divine intervention of your particular emotionally stunted pan-dimensional invisible space wizard. If this is evidence for your god, then both Joseph Smith and Muhammad are prophets of the One True (and mutually exclusive) god. In fact, every religion is true, because we can find believers with near identical stories in every cult. Congrats, you should rightly believe in all religions if your standard of evidence is so low.


This is why you're a retarded cunt.
What lie have I said?
Quote it.
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10-01-2016, 11:04 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:26 PM)Noric Wrote:  Could I ask a question... Just for the sake of perspective. If humans were as hands off as God is if he's there, as in no holy wars, no genocide, no witch hunts, no judgement by unjust men, no hypocrisy, no "in the name of..." whatsoever (note, I'm not trying to paint an infallible picture of religion, just laying out a totally fabricated hands off scenario for the sake of the question) Would a passive belief in a higher being be just as bad if humans hadn't fucked it up in the beginning? I heard somebody say once "my faith stops at my nose" and I didn't get it then, but it makes a whole lot more sense now. What if faith was never organized and everybody took that nose-barrier approach to it, do any of you at all believe the situation wouldn't be as distasteful as it is now? And of not, what would be your objections in that scenario?
Would it be as bad? Well...no. I mean if we remove all the harmful stuff from religion it would be less harmful kinda by necessity. I won't speak for the others but from my point of view what's fundamentally wrong with religion, or just faith based thinking in general, is not that it's harmful though it really really is. That's always been more of a symptom and not the cause of it's problem.
The cause is that it's not based in reason or evidence and almost universally when something is not it causes problems. Big problems. Homeopathy is harmful because it's not rooted in evidence and reason as just one other example. It's the foundation it's self that is toxic, not the house that people have built on top of it.

It's a catch-22: so long as faith based thinking persists religion will always be problematic at best and evil at worst, but without it religion dies. For religion to be not harmful in someway it has to not exist.

The problem with religion is not that men pervert it (though that is tragic in a way) but that it subsists entirely on the very thing that causes it to be so twisted: poor education and a rejection of, or hostility towards, reason and evidence.

It's an Ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail.


Personal note: I like you. I might disagree with you, but I like you. I'll do my best to keep my claws sheathed in the future. Big Grin

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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10-01-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:26 PM)Noric Wrote:  I will say this, I don't know exactly what pops point has been throughout this (you're really bad at staying in topic bro, I just talked about this with my family)... however, and I say this at risk of emboldening him, which is gonna suck... he said something small that I agree with...

Quote:Unfortunately, the blood spilled by the hand of power hungry man has left a foul stench in the air when one views much organized religion. This fear, even of persecution is not to feared by those rightly ailing the narrow path, and is of man and deception.

I wouldn't use such condescending language, but I think there's a point here. Most of the bullshit surrounding religion was acted on by humans, not a god physically walking on earth and killing blind people who can't see him, and are therefore incapable of believing he's actually there.

Could I ask a question... Just for the sake of perspective. If humans were as hands off as God is if he's there, as in no holy wars, no genocide, no witch hunts, no judgement by unjust men, no hypocrisy, no "in the name of..." whatsoever (note, I'm not trying to paint an infallible picture of religion, just laying out a totally fabricated hands off scenario for the sake of the question) Would a passive belief in a higher being be just as bad if humans hadn't fucked it up in the beginning? I heard somebody say once "my faith stops at my nose" and I didn't get it then, but it makes a whole lot more sense now. What if faith was never organized and everybody took that nose-barrier approach to it, do any of you at all believe the situation wouldn't be as distasteful as it is now? And of not, what would be your objections in that scenario?

That said, the rest of what pops said is just... Wow. If you at all claim to be a representative of theists, then I'll gladly go at it with you myself.
Okay
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10-01-2016, 11:08 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 09:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  That was the specific question in the post...in bold. Note the question mark.

Still waiting to hear about what happened to bring about your sudden faith.
I was in a bad spot. I'd always been sort of negative or pessimistic. For a couple of years before 2011 I had been putting myself and close family through exponential amounts of pain. Always having a quite but strong will I fought to change my own course. I had grown and experienced much by my own hand through ruthless indecision and hidden selfishness. Despite my seemingly best attempts I could not climb myself out of the pit I had dug. Changes were being made. Slowly. I thought I was doing better, but due to high threshold or embracing negativity as motivation I blinded myself to the obvious.

I nearly killed the mother of one of my children out of not rage exactly, but need, as I was trying to advance from where I was for multiple reasons and she was bent on self gratification(destruction) regardless of what was at stake(child). So anyway yeah, really, really almost ruined the lives of two families, more importantly messing up the chances of a child to have a fair chance. So I didn't kill her. I stopped after methodically chasing her in a calm composed manner for ~20 minutes.

Maybe the next day, I'm not sure. 7-30-11 I was driving home from work in my normal angry, critical state. I remember driving on the highway and the radio fading out. It was peculiar so I adjusted the volume and frequency to no avail whatsoever.

I remember after that feeling a wonderful sense of relief. A sense of all burdens such as anger, hatred, spite, vengeance, malice where taken away from me. These things that weighed me down and made me so destructive where lifted from my shoulders. It was overwhelming. Don't recall crying before that. But years of joy ran freely down my face as I sobbed in joy and gratitude. I was shown a lot, mostly personal really. I recall flashes of memories long forgotten brought to the forefront, shown in holy different light, significance, and necessity. I was shown that through all steps in my life and even prior to my birth that not only where my growing pains necessarily, but that God was their through all of it contrary to my complete disbelief the majority of the time. I remember many things came to me in a different view or understanding that seemed complete and unquestionable. Not because of authority necessarily, but it was just that level of understanding, it was complete in some way. I remember being in utter awe at the miraculousness of the things that had transpired, and newly motivated and driven with a whole different attitude towards life. I was very grateful, and still am. I recall the radio fading back in and kinda realising it was done or whatever. I got home, found what I could to write on(the invoice book) and tried to write what I could remember. Like I said what came out seems to be more of a moral guide than a recollection of the event itself.

That pretty much covers it. I have had other subsequent verifications I guess you could call it, also, of varied degrees and nature.

That's it I guess.

Peace
So a psychotic break. Explains a lot.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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10-01-2016, 11:09 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:04 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:26 PM)Noric Wrote:  Could I ask a question... Just for the sake of perspective. If humans were as hands off as God is if he's there, as in no holy wars, no genocide, no witch hunts, no judgement by unjust men, no hypocrisy, no "in the name of..." whatsoever (note, I'm not trying to paint an infallible picture of religion, just laying out a totally fabricated hands off scenario for the sake of the question) Would a passive belief in a higher being be just as bad if humans hadn't fucked it up in the beginning? I heard somebody say once "my faith stops at my nose" and I didn't get it then, but it makes a whole lot more sense now. What if faith was never organized and everybody took that nose-barrier approach to it, do any of you at all believe the situation wouldn't be as distasteful as it is now? And of not, what would be your objections in that scenario?
Would it be as bad? Well...no. I mean if we remove all the harmful stuff from religion it would be less harmful kinda by necessity. I won't speak for the others but from my point of view what's fundamentally wrong with religion, or just faith based thinking in general, is not that it's harmful though it really really is. That's always been more of a symptom and not the cause of it's problem.
The cause is that it's not based in reason or evidence and almost universally when something is not it causes problems. Big problems. Homeopathy is harmful because it's not rooted in evidence and reason as just one other example. It's the foundation it's self that is toxic, not the house that people have built on top of it.

It's a catch-22: so long as faith based thinking persists religion will always be problematic at best and evil at worst, but without it religion dies. For religion to be not harmful in someway it has to not exist.

The problem with religion is not that men pervert it (though that is tragic in a way) but that it subsists entirely on the very thing that causes it to be so twisted: poor education and a rejection of, or hostility towards, reason and evidence.

It's an Ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail.


Personal note: I like you. I might disagree with you, but I like you. I'll do my best to keep my claws sheathed in the future. Big Grin
There is nothing wrong with reason or evidence.
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10-01-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:01 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:51 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  We have no reason (none, zero, zip, zilch, nada) to believe anything you have to say, given your recorded history of repeated dishonest bullshit on this forum.

Even assuming what you have said is true, that's nowhere close to being evidence for anything supernatural or miraculous, let alone the divine intervention of your particular emotionally stunted pan-dimensional invisible space wizard. If this is evidence for your god, then both Joseph Smith and Muhammad are prophets of the One True (and mutually exclusive) god. In fact, every religion is true, because we can find believers with near identical stories in every cult. Congrats, you should rightly believe in all religions if your standard of evidence is so low.


This is why you're a retarded cunt.
What lie have I said?
Quote it.
Really motherfucker? REALLY?!

I have MULTIPLE times done entire multi part posts cataloging your lies and deceptions only to have you completely ignore them and pretend that no one has ever caught you lying like a day later. I've watched you respond to EVERY single post of mine in a whole thread except the ones where I do exactly that: quote your damn lies.

You are such a fucking cunt.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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10-01-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:09 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 11:04 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Would it be as bad? Well...no. I mean if we remove all the harmful stuff from religion it would be less harmful kinda by necessity. I won't speak for the others but from my point of view what's fundamentally wrong with religion, or just faith based thinking in general, is not that it's harmful though it really really is. That's always been more of a symptom and not the cause of it's problem.
The cause is that it's not based in reason or evidence and almost universally when something is not it causes problems. Big problems. Homeopathy is harmful because it's not rooted in evidence and reason as just one other example. It's the foundation it's self that is toxic, not the house that people have built on top of it.

It's a catch-22: so long as faith based thinking persists religion will always be problematic at best and evil at worst, but without it religion dies. For religion to be not harmful in someway it has to not exist.

The problem with religion is not that men pervert it (though that is tragic in a way) but that it subsists entirely on the very thing that causes it to be so twisted: poor education and a rejection of, or hostility towards, reason and evidence.

It's an Ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail.


Personal note: I like you. I might disagree with you, but I like you. I'll do my best to keep my claws sheathed in the future. Big Grin
There is nothing wrong with reason or evidence.
Way to entirely miss the point Pops. Fuckin' 'ell kid.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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10-01-2016, 11:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2016 11:25 PM by Noric.)
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:04 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:26 PM)Noric Wrote:  Could I ask a question... Just for the sake of perspective. If humans were as hands off as God is if he's there, as in no holy wars, no genocide, no witch hunts, no judgement by unjust men, no hypocrisy, no "in the name of..." whatsoever (note, I'm not trying to paint an infallible picture of religion, just laying out a totally fabricated hands off scenario for the sake of the question) Would a passive belief in a higher being be just as bad if humans hadn't fucked it up in the beginning? I heard somebody say once "my faith stops at my nose" and I didn't get it then, but it makes a whole lot more sense now. What if faith was never organized and everybody took that nose-barrier approach to it, do any of you at all believe the situation wouldn't be as distasteful as it is now? And of not, what would be your objections in that scenario?
Would it be as bad? Well...no. I mean if we remove all the harmful stuff from religion it would be less harmful kinda by necessity. I won't speak for the others but from my point of view what's fundamentally wrong with religion, or just faith based thinking in general, is not that it's harmful though it really really is. That's always been more of a symptom and not the cause of it's problem.
The cause is that it's not based in reason or evidence and almost universally when something is not it causes problems. Big problems. Homeopathy is harmful because it's not rooted in evidence and reason as just one other example. It's the foundation it's self that is toxic, not the house that people have built on top of it.

It's a catch-22: so long as faith based thinking persists religion will always be problematic at best and evil at worst, but without it religion dies. For religion to be not harmful in someway it has to not exist.

The problem with religion is not that men pervert it (though that is tragic in a way) but that it subsists entirely on the very thing that causes it to be so twisted: poor education and a rejection of, or hostility towards, reason and evidence.

It's an Ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail.


Personal note: I like you. I might disagree with you, but I like you. I'll do my best to keep my claws sheathed in the future. Big Grin

Haha thank you. I have thick skin though, I like the discussion. And I like things with claws! Anyways, to your point, which I actually opened another thread before this about fundamentalism and rejecting science and rejecting the idea that science is the best understanding of the world we have right now, I truly think that is a bass ackwards belief to hold, and I "fundamentally" reject fundamentalism in and of itself. I just happen to think something outside our comprehension could possibly exist also... However illogical that may sound (not being sarcastic). Side note though, I fear that it seems kinda showy and not too genuine, me being a theist that criticizes theism and all, but I REAAAALLLY hate religious moral absolutists with a passion, for personal reasons no less. So I guess use me to add to my scenario? Totally for the best education possible, totally against the rejection of it because... I really can't think of another reason but stupidity. If you think the earth is the center of the solar system, well, you're stupid..

Acceptance is a hell of a drug.
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10-01-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:14 PM)Noric Wrote:  Haha thank you. I have thick skin though, I like the discussion. And I like things with claws! Anyways, to your point, which I actually opened another thread before this about fundamentalism and rejecting science and rejecting the idea that science is the best understanding of the world we have right now, I truly think that is a bass ackwards belief to hold, and I "fundamentally" reject fundamentalism in and of itself. I just happen to think something outside our comprehension could possibly exist also... However illogical that may sound (not being sarcastic). Side note though, I fear that it seems kinda showy and not too genuine, me being a theist that criticizes theism and all, but I REAAAALLLY hate religious moral absolutists with a passion, for personal reasons no less. So I guess use me to add to my scenario?
I get where you are coming from, and I agree on several points, but fundamentalism is just a symptom as well. The problem is the underlying human tendency to accept things not just without evidence but often, as in pops case for example, against good evidence. Faith is not a virtue.

I have no real problem with people who want to believe that there could be "more"...but, and this is a big but, the recognition needs to be made that to believe something without, or against, good evidence is by it's nature irrational. The time for belief in something is AFTER a demonstration of existence is made not before. Could there be something beyond our comprehension? Sure. Is there a reason to believe that there is? Nope, not without demonstrable evidence.

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