Some straight bull...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-01-2016, 11:47 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:33 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I get where you are coming from, and I agree on several points, but fundamentalism is just a symptom as well. The problem is the underlying human tendency to accept things not just without evidence but often, as in pops case for example, against good evidence. Faith is not a virtue.

I have no real problem with people who want to believe that there could be "more"...but, and this is a big but, the recognition needs to be made that to believe something without, or against, good evidence is by it's nature irrational. The time for belief in something is AFTER a demonstration of existence is made not before. Could there be something beyond our comprehension? Sure. Is there a reason to believe that there is? Nope, not without demonstrable evidence.

Fair enough! Thanks for the responses. I know a lot of the stuff I said was very much "in a perfect world", but you make a lot of sense.

Acceptance is a hell of a drug.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Noric's post
11-01-2016, 12:20 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 11:47 PM)Noric Wrote:  Fair enough! Thanks for the responses. I know a lot of the stuff I said was very much "in a perfect world", but you make a lot of sense.

You are new and have very little idea what we have put up with from Pop's. I used to try rational discussion with him but it was obvious I was dealing with a loon.

He has earned his sobriquet, Fuckstick, from me.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Banjo's post
11-01-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 04:35 PM)Noric Wrote:  This turned into an interesting thread.

Eh… pops's bullshit gets dull after a while.

His participation on this thread will stop, however, just as soon as he makes a specific claim (rather than the vague and incoherent stuff) and is asked to provide evidence to back it up and then is required to discuss that evidence in detail.

See: every thread with pops in it, ever. Once he's asked to be specific, his phone battery "dies," or his large volume of supporting evidence is somehow deleted--before it ever makes it to one of his posts and can be evaluated by other readers--and he demands that instead, others "look it up."

He even runs from simple questions asking him to cite the scripture backing his claims, for example, that all scriptures of all religions essentially agree, or that scripture supports a single point.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like julep's post
11-01-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 07:53 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You are being nonsensical; on one hand you claim no universal morality, then on the. Other you. State that my writings would have been based in common knowledge. Your excusing away of every word I say without regard to the point of endless self contradiction is what is old here.

The general ideas you spout are common across human cultures and human history but that does not mean that every human espouses them or that they apply to everything outside humanity. Common and universal are not at all the same thing.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like unfogged's post
11-01-2016, 06:54 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:26 PM)Noric Wrote:  I will say this, I don't know exactly what pops point has been throughout this (you're really bad at staying in topic bro, I just talked about this with my family)... however, and I say this at risk of emboldening him, which is gonna suck... he said something small that I agree with...

Quote:Unfortunately, the blood spilled by the hand of power hungry man has left a foul stench in the air when one views much organized religion. This fear, even of persecution is not to feared by those rightly ailing the narrow path, and is of man and deception.

I wouldn't use such condescending language, but I think there's a point here. Most of the bullshit surrounding religion was acted on by humans, not a god physically walking on earth and killing blind people who can't see him, and are therefore incapable of believing he's actually there.

Could I ask a question... Just for the sake of perspective. If humans were as hands off as God is if he's there, as in no holy wars, no genocide, no witch hunts, no judgement by unjust men, no hypocrisy, no "in the name of..." whatsoever (note, I'm not trying to paint an infallible picture of religion, just laying out a totally fabricated hands off scenario for the sake of the question) Would a passive belief in a higher being be just as bad if humans hadn't fucked it up in the beginning? I heard somebody say once "my faith stops at my nose" and I didn't get it then, but it makes a whole lot more sense now. What if faith was never organized and everybody took that nose-barrier approach to it, do any of you at all believe the situation wouldn't be as distasteful as it is now? And of not, what would be your objections in that scenario?

That said, the rest of what pops said is just... Wow. If you at all claim to be a representative of theists, then I'll gladly go at it with you myself.

The problem with the "my faith stops at my nose" claim is this (generally): said faith then lets me look down that nose at people who don't believe the same as me. Even if just a little bit, believers are better disposed towards the people in their faith group. They'll do a favor faster for a fellow believer, be more inclined to find other believers trustworthy, etc.

It is tempting to say that belief in a god, per se (note, Pops, that's how you spell it), is not the problem, tribalism is the problem. Organized religions are tribal, while a more vague, unaffiliated spirituality is less so. I'd agree: vague spirituality is less damaging, but it's also less advantageous, so believers look for tribes of the likeminded, which leads eventually to rules about who's in and who's out. Because no matter how much a religion says it wants all humans to follow it, that's not how human groups work. As soon as everyone believed in the same god, there would be people pointing at their neighbors--maybe ones who just happened to have an enviable cow, or computer, or Ferrari, whatever--and saying, "those are not true believers because they don't do or believe [insert heretical nonsense here]. Clearly they're in a different tribe, so let's take their stuff and tell them that it's their fault."

As you can see from this thread, battles with pops are kind of pointless from the POV of changing pops's ideas. However, challenging him and watching him try to write a coherent sentence is kind of entertaining.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like julep's post
11-01-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
Actually it is Popsthebuilder. So Pop's is perfectly natural.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-01-2016, 07:04 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 10:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 09:50 PM)Anjele Wrote:  That was the specific question in the post...in bold. Note the question mark.

Still waiting to hear about what happened to bring about your sudden faith.
I was in a bad spot. I'd always been sort of negative or pessimistic. For a couple of years before 2011 I had been putting myself and close family through exponential amounts of pain. Always having a quite but strong will I fought to change my own course. I had grown and experienced much by my own hand through ruthless indecision and hidden selfishness. Despite my seemingly best attempts I could not climb myself out of the pit I had dug. Changes were being made. Slowly. I thought I was doing better, but due to high threshold or embracing negativity as motivation I blinded myself to the obvious.

I nearly killed the mother of one of my children out of not rage exactly, but need, as I was trying to advance from where I was for multiple reasons and she was bent on self gratification(destruction) regardless of what was at stake(child). So anyway yeah, really, really almost ruined the lives of two families, more importantly messing up the chances of a child to have a fair chance. So I didn't kill her. I stopped after methodically chasing her in a calm composed manner for ~20 minutes.

Maybe the next day, I'm not sure. 7-30-11 I was driving home from work in my normal angry, critical state. I remember driving on the highway and the radio fading out. It was peculiar so I adjusted the volume and frequency to no avail whatsoever.

I remember after that feeling a wonderful sense of relief. A sense of all burdens such as anger, hatred, spite, vengeance, malice where taken away from me. These things that weighed me down and made me so destructive where lifted from my shoulders. It was overwhelming. Don't recall crying before that. But years of joy ran freely down my face as I sobbed in joy and gratitude. I was shown a lot, mostly personal really. I recall flashes of memories long forgotten brought to the forefront, shown in holy different light, significance, and necessity. I was shown that through all steps in my life and even prior to my birth that not only where my growing pains necessarily, but that God was their through all of it contrary to my complete disbelief the majority of the time. I remember many things came to me in a different view or understanding that seemed complete and unquestionable. Not because of authority necessarily, but it was just that level of understanding, it was complete in some way. I remember being in utter awe at the miraculousness of the things that had transpired, and newly motivated and driven with a whole different attitude towards life. I was very grateful, and still am. I recall the radio fading back in and kinda realising it was done or whatever. I got home, found what I could to write on(the invoice book) and tried to write what I could remember. Like I said what came out seems to be more of a moral guide than a recollection of the event itself.

That pretty much covers it. I have had other subsequent verifications I guess you could call it, also, of varied degrees and nature.

That's it I guess.

Peace

Sounds to me like you had some kind of psychotic break and fugue state surrounding after being so violent, which I have seen happen in a member of my own family. He got help in the form of therapy and medication and has been much better since.

It is disturbing information for me as a parent, to hear that you have children, so I am going to echo the phrase in others' posts:

Get help, Pops, you need it. For the sake of the people around you, if not for yourself: please go see a professional.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like julep's post
11-01-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(11-01-2016 07:04 AM)julep Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:44 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was in a bad spot. I'd always been sort of negative or pessimistic. For a couple of years before 2011 I had been putting myself and close family through exponential amounts of pain. Always having a quite but strong will I fought to change my own course. I had grown and experienced much by my own hand through ruthless indecision and hidden selfishness. Despite my seemingly best attempts I could not climb myself out of the pit I had dug. Changes were being made. Slowly. I thought I was doing better, but due to high threshold or embracing negativity as motivation I blinded myself to the obvious.

I nearly killed the mother of one of my children out of not rage exactly, but need, as I was trying to advance from where I was for multiple reasons and she was bent on self gratification(destruction) regardless of what was at stake(child). So anyway yeah, really, really almost ruined the lives of two families, more importantly messing up the chances of a child to have a fair chance. So I didn't kill her. I stopped after methodically chasing her in a calm composed manner for ~20 minutes.

Maybe the next day, I'm not sure. 7-30-11 I was driving home from work in my normal angry, critical state. I remember driving on the highway and the radio fading out. It was peculiar so I adjusted the volume and frequency to no avail whatsoever.

I remember after that feeling a wonderful sense of relief. A sense of all burdens such as anger, hatred, spite, vengeance, malice where taken away from me. These things that weighed me down and made me so destructive where lifted from my shoulders. It was overwhelming. Don't recall crying before that. But years of joy ran freely down my face as I sobbed in joy and gratitude. I was shown a lot, mostly personal really. I recall flashes of memories long forgotten brought to the forefront, shown in holy different light, significance, and necessity. I was shown that through all steps in my life and even prior to my birth that not only where my growing pains necessarily, but that God was their through all of it contrary to my complete disbelief the majority of the time. I remember many things came to me in a different view or understanding that seemed complete and unquestionable. Not because of authority necessarily, but it was just that level of understanding, it was complete in some way. I remember being in utter awe at the miraculousness of the things that had transpired, and newly motivated and driven with a whole different attitude towards life. I was very grateful, and still am. I recall the radio fading back in and kinda realising it was done or whatever. I got home, found what I could to write on(the invoice book) and tried to write what I could remember. Like I said what came out seems to be more of a moral guide than a recollection of the event itself.

That pretty much covers it. I have had other subsequent verifications I guess you could call it, also, of varied degrees and nature.

That's it I guess.

Peace

Sounds to me like you had some kind of psychotic break and fugue state surrounding after being so violent, which I have seen happen in a member of my own family. He got help in the form of therapy and medication and has been much better since.

It is disturbing information for me as a parent, to hear that you have children, so I am going to echo the phrase in others' posts:

Get help, Pops, you need it. For the sake of the people around you, if not for yourself: please go see a professional.
My children are fine. I do not speak to them about God, only the morality that connects us all. I teach them to help others at any available interval and that money however necessary at this time can cause men to do evil. I explain the importance of a proper education. As far as Faith and God are concerned, I will slow them to find their own truths. Thanks for your concerns. Contrary to what may think, my children mean a lot to me and I am not a danger to anyone or myself. I would most likely be dead if I wasn't saved, probably would have done some pretty terrible things.

Your worry is unfounded.

I may sound bat shit crazy, but in reality I am calm, collected, methodical, a hard worker, and eager to help others in any way I can. I haven't been truly dangerously violent since 2011.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-01-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
proof positive that drinking the bong water is bad for you.....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
11-01-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(11-01-2016 09:05 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 07:04 AM)julep Wrote:  Sounds to me like you had some kind of psychotic break and fugue state surrounding after being so violent, which I have seen happen in a member of my own family. He got help in the form of therapy and medication and has been much better since.

It is disturbing information for me as a parent, to hear that you have children, so I am going to echo the phrase in others' posts:

Get help, Pops, you need it. For the sake of the people around you, if not for yourself: please go see a professional.
My children are fine. I do not speak to them about God, only the morality that connects us all. I teach them to help others at any available interval and that money however necessary at this time can cause men to do evil. I explain the importance of a proper education. As far as Faith and God are concerned, I will slow them to find their own truths. Thanks for your concerns. Contrary to what may think, my children mean a lot to me and I am not a danger to anyone or myself. I would most likely be dead if I wasn't saved, probably would have done some pretty terrible things.

Your worry is unfounded.

I may sound bat shit crazy, but in reality I am calm, collected, methodical, a hard worker, and eager to help others in any way I can. I haven't been truly dangerously violent since 2011.

I think I won't engage with you anymore, as I don't want to have a part in undoing what equilibrium you've achieved. You don't come across online as calm, but maybe real life is different. Many of us are a bit different online.

But please, please, if your calm starts to fade and you start to get very upset or angry in real life, please seek help from a trained human being and not just from your god.

I hope you continue to feel calm and in control, and that you and those around you thrive and grow.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes julep's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: