Some straight bull...
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09-01-2016, 11:12 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(07-01-2016 06:25 AM)cactus Wrote:  So if God exists, (s)he can forgive any sin, except for one, the sin of non-belief.
Yeah, seems really loving. Drinking Beverage
The one sin is knowing disbelief, as in blasphemy against the holy spirit. I one is in disbelief due to lack of knowledge then it isn't held against then and they are judged based on their actions.
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09-01-2016, 11:14 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(07-01-2016 09:18 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  A history of Hell shows it to be what it is, a manufactured concept. The christian perspective of Hell appears out of step with many other religions and philosophies and is obviously predicated on the idea that if you "embrace Jebus" you will be saved.

Interesting nevertheless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038xb6
Embracing Jesus is to do good to others for their sake in all you do. Definitely not singular to Christianity at all.
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09-01-2016, 11:19 PM
RE: Some straight bull...
(07-01-2016 09:38 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Have some TheraminTrees. The whole video talks about his deconversion. The entire video is worth a watch, but the part where he discusses Hell is from about 15:52 to 17:54.





The entirety of the Bible has only a single "moral" rule in it: Obey God. Keep the covenant contracts exactly as he has laid out -- whether you wanted to be part of the agreement or not, it's not like you had any choice in it. You could be the most bloodthirsty, rapacious, genocidal maniac, but so long as you obeyed God you were golden. All the rest of morality put forth by the Bible exists solely in the context of "this is a hoop God makes you jump through" -- whether it's the commandments not to kill or steal, or the commandments not to eat shellfish, not to wear mixed fabrics, or not to shave. Nothing is ever put forward as an innately, objectively moral standard -- it's all good or bad for no more reason than God issued an edict. If God issues rules legitimizing slavery and specific commands demanding it (and the Bible says He did), then that's all fine and dandy. If God makes rules about how girls can be sold by their fathers to husbands who they have every desire to stay as far away from as possible, for a fixed price of thirty shekels, then that's perfectly legit, and marital rape isn't actually rape by God's law. And if God later makes or reveals or alters a new section of the covenant whereby someone who doesn't believe he even exists (say, an Australian Aborigine in the second century CE who never even heard the legends) is to be punished through eternal torture for violation of the newly-worldwide covenant... well, that IS what happens, according to the Bible.

When we stop imagining the character of God as innately good -- something that the Bible never puts forward (to the best of my recollection) save in the ass-kissing prayers of people trying to solicit a blessing or avoid a smiting -- a very different picture of the Good Book's central figure emerges. I don't think I've ever heard a better condemnation than this one from the play/film "God On Trial", wherein Jewish prisoners in a Nazi concentration camp stage a mock trial of God for abandoning the covenant with them.



You misconstrue the general message of the Torah quite substantially.

The idea is to seek the right path in all you do at all times and that with patience, perseverance, and following what you know is right, that you will be counted as righteous and of the right direction.

You can't mix some things is hinting that one cannot stray or have two directions.
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10-01-2016, 01:03 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(09-01-2016 11:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 06:25 AM)cactus Wrote:  So if God exists, (s)he can forgive any sin, except for one, the sin of non-belief.
Yeah, seems really loving. Drinking Beverage
The one sin is knowing disbelief, as in blasphemy against the holy spirit. I one is in disbelief due to lack of knowledge then it isn't held against then and they are judged based on their actions.


Your conception of god fails to meet his own burden of proof, therefor it is unreasonable to hold nonbelievers responsible for the 'sin of knowing disbelief' when it is god (not just yours, but all of them) who has failed to provide the necessary evidence for his existence.

Not that I actually expect you to understand that. Drinking Beverage

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10-01-2016, 01:06 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 01:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 11:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The one sin is knowing disbelief, as in blasphemy against the holy spirit. I one is in disbelief due to lack of knowledge then it isn't held against then and they are judged based on their actions.


Your conception of god fails to meet his own burden of proof, therefor it is unreasonable to hold nonbelievers responsible for the 'sin of knowing disbelief' when it is god (not just yours, but all of them) who has failed to provide the necessary evidence for his existence.

Not that I actually expect you to understand that. Drinking Beverage
I meant known disbelief as in actually knowing that God exists and knowingly opposing that knowledge.
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10-01-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(09-01-2016 11:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(07-01-2016 09:18 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  A history of Hell shows it to be what it is, a manufactured concept. The christian perspective of Hell appears out of step with many other religions and philosophies and is obviously predicated on the idea that if you "embrace Jebus" you will be saved.

Interesting nevertheless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038xb6
Embracing Jesus is to do good to others for their sake in all you do. Definitely not singular to Christianity at all.


Except that the logic doesn't follow. Plenty of self proclaimed Jesus loving and serving Christians have committed atrocities in the name of loving and serving Jesus.


Dedicating yourself to a person, or cause, or an imaginary friend is not, in and of itself, objectively good.

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10-01-2016, 01:13 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 01:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-01-2016 11:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Embracing Jesus is to do good to others for their sake in all you do. Definitely not singular to Christianity at all.


Except that the logic doesn't follow. Plenty of self proclaimed Jesus loving and serving Christians have committed atrocities in the name of loving and serving Jesus.


Dedicating yourself to a person, or cause, or an imaginary friend is not, in and of itself, objectively good.
Who the fuk said it was?
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10-01-2016, 01:14 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 01:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 01:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Your conception of god fails to meet his own burden of proof, therefor it is unreasonable to hold nonbelievers responsible for the 'sin of knowing disbelief' when it is god (not just yours, but all of them) who has failed to provide the necessary evidence for his existence.

Not that I actually expect you to understand that. Drinking Beverage
I meant known disbelief as in actually knowing that God exists and knowingly opposing that knowledge.


There is the rub, without evidence, nobody can claim to know that god does, in fact, exist. Therefor there are no knowing believers, only those who believe without evidence or who are under the mistaken impression that they do have evidence. This is why faith is so important to religions, precisely because they don't have evidence.


Without evidence, you don't know your god exists either. You can claim otherwise, but if you can not show it, you don't know it, and you need to stop pretending like you do. Drinking Beverage

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10-01-2016, 01:16 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 01:13 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 01:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Except that the logic doesn't follow. Plenty of self proclaimed Jesus loving and serving Christians have committed atrocities in the name of loving and serving Jesus.


Dedicating yourself to a person, or cause, or an imaginary friend is not, in and of itself, objectively good.
Who the fuk said it was?


Embracing Jesus does not equate, in and of iteslf, to anything good. Do you not understand what words mean?

Check that, of course you don't. Drinking Beverage

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10-01-2016, 01:17 AM
RE: Some straight bull...
(10-01-2016 01:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 01:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I meant known disbelief as in actually knowing that God exists and knowingly opposing that knowledge.


There is the rub, without evidence, nobody can claim to know that god does, in fact, exist. Therefor there are no knowing believers, only those who believe without evidence or who are under the mistaken impression that they do have evidence. This is why faith is so important to religions, precisely because they don't have evidence.


Without evidence, you don't know your god exists either. You can claim otherwise, but if you can not show it, you don't know it, and you need to stop pretending like you do. Drinking Beverage
Lol...rhymed and all...that's cute.

I do know it.

Not exactly related; it's being shown at an exponentially high rate as of late so much so that it's perhaps the most to date.
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