Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
Old Testament Prophecies fulfilled by Jesus.

That doesn't count, because the authors of the Gospels could have just twisted Jesus' life to conform to the prophecies.

Say I had a friend who wrote a book, it's a fantasy series, and it centers around several important prophecies. He dies, unable to finish what was meant to be a series, so I finish it for him. In the new book, I have several prophecies from the previous book fulfilled.

Are you going to say; "That guy is fucking magic!"?, of course not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like TheLastEnemy's post
04-05-2013, 09:06 PM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
Sadly, I've seen people using that argument. You can't use a book to prove the veracity of it's own claims.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

[Image: ZcC2kGl.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Elesjei's post
05-05-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
You're partly right. An Old Testament prophecy could have "been fulfilled" simply by writing the story of Jesus' life to fulfill prophecy. But all that the believer has to do is cite non-biblical sources for the life of Jesus that conform to prophecy fulfillment. But because we know that the historical Jesus has no contemporary outside sources, this is something that believers have failed to do.

It's not that this line of argument is wrong intrinsically, it's just that it doesn't work with the evidence at hand.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-05-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
(04-05-2013 08:47 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  Old Testament Prophecies fulfilled by Jesus.

That doesn't count, because the authors of the Gospels could have just twisted Jesus' life to conform to the prophecies.

Say I had a friend who wrote a book, it's a fantasy series, and it centers around several important prophecies. He dies, unable to finish what was meant to be a series, so I finish it for him. In the new book, I have several prophecies from the previous book fulfilled.

Are you going to say; "That guy is fucking magic!"?, of course not.
One word: Nostradamus. His so called prophecies are vague enough that just about any major world event can be made to seem like fulfillment.

What prophecies is Jesus supposed to have fulfilled? I can only think of two: the messiah would be born in Bethlehem and be of the house of David. The fulfillment of these is in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke, both of which have been debunked.





Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice Is also great
And would suffice. -- Robert Frost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-05-2013, 09:57 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2013 10:11 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
I disagree.
There are two reasons why prophets should not be quoted :
1. Jebus cannot be claimed as a "messiah", as he did not get THE main job a messiah was to have accomplished. He did not claim the title. He did not restore the kingdom of Israel. The Kingdom of Israel has STILL not been "restored". There were a number of "messiahs" running around in his day, and if Simon bar Kochba could be seen as a much better one, a few years later, it's a good reason to think Jebus was not seen as one. The Romans STILL occupied the country, before, during, and after his life.
2. The most important reason is the the role of a prophet in ancient Hebrew culture was not to predict the future. They were advsors. The word "prophet" means "mouthpiece". They speak TO THE PEOPLE of their own day, in the place of their god, (Yahweh). The entire business of "prediction of the future" is "Presentism",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_..._analysis)
a slapping of modern meaning(s) onto an ancient culture.
For example the entire business of the "virgin birth", is not only mistranslated, it's removed from it's historical context, in which a prophet was telling THE PEOPLE OF HIS TIME, how to interpret events, NOT prediction of the future.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...gin+birth.
Around the 1st Century CE. it became popular in apocalyptic circles and literature, in the of the study of Midrash, to begin to find secret hidden meanings. That was the beginning of the "fortune-telling" use of the prophetic scrolls. Divination and fortune telling was forbidden. The gospel writers bought into that, to some extent, as it was useful, but the true meaning of "prophet" was NOT to foretell the future, even though it has in modern times, come to mean that. That's NOT what it meant in Jebus' day.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Assistant Manager, Vice Detection, Whoville : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
05-05-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
Harry Potter is 100% fact.
Prove me wrong.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like earmuffs's post
05-05-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
(04-05-2013 09:06 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Sadly, I've seen people using that argument. You can't use a book to prove the veracity of it's own claims.

Yeah, it doesn't stop them from trying. Somebody got me to read an apologetics book that was just a bunch of this, "the bible says XXX is true, and the bible says the bible is true, so XXX true! checkmate, atheists!" And they don't seem to see the problem with that sort of thing.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-05-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
(05-05-2013 03:44 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 09:06 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Sadly, I've seen people using that argument. You can't use a book to prove the veracity of it's own claims.

Yeah, it doesn't stop them from trying. Somebody got me to read an apologetics book that was just a bunch of this, "the bible says XXX is true, and the bible says the bible is true, so XXX true! checkmate, atheists!" And they don't seem to see the problem with that sort of thing.

They don't see any problem there because the bible was inspired by god. So, again:

"The bible says XXX is true, and the bible says the bible is true, so XXX is true because the bible is inspired by god."

DISCLAIMER: If you find a message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a message, complain to me and I will be happy to demonstrate.

[Image: tta.php]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-05-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
Yeah, I know, but they don't seem to grasp why that particular argument doesn't work on atheists, because it presupposes the belief that the bible was divinely-inspired.

A cousin of mine told me to read a certain book and she could not, for the life of her, understand why I didn't find it convincing at all. (Some awful shit by Josh McDowell.) She honestly expected me to read this book and instantly become Christian. She told me to call her back (this was during a phone call) when I had let god back into my life and was done searching. Needless the say, I've never called her back.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-05-2013, 04:36 PM
RE: Somehing Christians Should NEVER EVER EVER Use For Proof
What you all didn't know is i am the new messiah. How do I know? Well because it is written in the reply that you are currently reading at this moment in time and since I'm the messiah you can take what you are reading as truth... so, checkmate, Hebrews/Christians/Muslims

Obama promised you change. Reach in your pocket, feel those coins? There's your change...
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: