Someone who denies God.
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16-06-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(15-06-2015 03:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  If, let say, the Christian God was real and the Bible his Holy Word, you would certainly found people who believe he exist and hate him for what he stand for. We are talking about the supreme entity with ultimate power and knowledge, who created the world and everything in it and he accept, favor and even encourage such things like slavery, murder, ignorance, blind obedience, pointless violence, ethnic cleansing, misogyny, human and animal sacrifice, cruelty, injustice and pure and simple stupidity. There is a reason why Dawkins qualified him rather justly «the most unpleasant character of all fiction».

Of course, you have no more reason to hate him then you have reason to hate Sauron. I would dare to say that most atheist (and I count myself amongst that group) consider the Abrahamic God to be a hateful character and despicable, yet since he is nothing more than a fictional character we can't really hate him. He doesn't exist. It's like hating Hannibal Lecter. We really would if he truly existed. Instead, we will hate those very real persons who support and defend things like slavery, murder, ignorance, blind obedience, pointless violence, ethnic cleansing, misogyny, human and animal sacrifice, cruelty, injustice and pure and simple stupidity.

No, I hate Sauron. If it wasn't for him, Beren and Luthien Tinuviel would have had a much easier road. And why assault Minas Tirith? Because the White Tree of Gondor was beautiful and awesome? And because Sauron had failed when he tried to seduce the Numenoreans thousands of years before... what a jerk!

Anyway, Dawkins is one of the more unpleasant characters in all of fiction, if you ask me. You and he have been led down a garden path, which is rather a slippery slope. God is love, God is good, and the commands of the Bible lead to peace.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-06-2015, 08:49 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(16-06-2015 08:46 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(15-06-2015 03:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  If, let say, the Christian God was real and the Bible his Holy Word, you would certainly found people who believe he exist and hate him for what he stand for. We are talking about the supreme entity with ultimate power and knowledge, who created the world and everything in it and he accept, favor and even encourage such things like slavery, murder, ignorance, blind obedience, pointless violence, ethnic cleansing, misogyny, human and animal sacrifice, cruelty, injustice and pure and simple stupidity. There is a reason why Dawkins qualified him rather justly «the most unpleasant character of all fiction».

Of course, you have no more reason to hate him then you have reason to hate Sauron. I would dare to say that most atheist (and I count myself amongst that group) consider the Abrahamic God to be a hateful character and despicable, yet since he is nothing more than a fictional character we can't really hate him. He doesn't exist. It's like hating Hannibal Lecter. We really would if he truly existed. Instead, we will hate those very real persons who support and defend things like slavery, murder, ignorance, blind obedience, pointless violence, ethnic cleansing, misogyny, human and animal sacrifice, cruelty, injustice and pure and simple stupidity.

No, I hate Sauron. If it wasn't for him, Beren and Luthien Tinuviel would have had a much easier road. And why assault Minas Tirith? Because the White Tree of Gondor was beautiful and awesome? And because Sauron had failed when he tried to seduce the Numenoreans thousands of years before... what a jerk!

Anyway, Dawkins is one of the more unpleasant characters in all of fiction, if you ask me. You and he have been led down a garden path, which is rather a slippery slope. God is love, God is good, and the commands of the Bible lead to peace.

Except Dawkins, unlike any gods, is demonstrably not fiction. The god of the Bible is not what you describe.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-06-2015, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 16-06-2015 04:52 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Someone who denies God.
@The Q Continuum

Nobody will ever take your hatred of Sauron very seriously. Of course you don' like him he is the villain of the story and he is just a fictional character. You can hate what he represent, but since he doesn't exist, you can't hate him personally unless of course you think he does a bad job at being a villain.

On another note, let’s make a little thought experiment. The Christian God exist. He created the world and human in its own image. What tells us he is good?
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16-06-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(16-06-2015 08:46 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, I hate Sauron. If it wasn't for him, Beren and Luthien Tinuviel would have had a much easier road. And why assault Minas Tirith? Because the White Tree of Gondor was beautiful and awesome? And because Sauron had failed when he tried to seduce the Numenoreans thousands of years before... what a jerk!

That and (If my aging memory serves me) Sauron was just playing second fiddle to Morgoth any way.

So a second rate, mustachio twirling villain too boot.
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17-06-2015, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2015 08:22 AM by The Q Continuum.)
RE: Someone who denies God.
(16-06-2015 02:06 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @The Q Continuum

Nobody will ever take your hatred of Sauron very seriously. Of course you don' like him he is the villain of the story and he is just a fictional character. You can hate what he represent, but since he doesn't exist, you can't hate him personally unless of course you think he does a bad job at being a villain.

On another note, let’s make a little thought experiment. The Christian God exist. He created the world and human in its own image. What tells us he is good?

What tells us God is good?

* You know what good is--even if as a skeptic, you will devoutly refuse to say good and evil can be objective rather than subjective terms--unless of course, I try to say that Hitler would be a good person in the eyes of a skeptic! Sorry to Godwin you, but...

* Repeating... you know what good is...

* You judge others for being not good...

* You are well on the way thusly to an understanding of God's goodness. Since "good" is a concept that can be objectified yet not an object in and of itself, you will need some kind of goodness scale before judging God's goodness. You need a measuring system... keep going...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-06-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(16-06-2015 08:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 08:46 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, I hate Sauron. If it wasn't for him, Beren and Luthien Tinuviel would have had a much easier road. And why assault Minas Tirith? Because the White Tree of Gondor was beautiful and awesome? And because Sauron had failed when he tried to seduce the Numenoreans thousands of years before... what a jerk!

Anyway, Dawkins is one of the more unpleasant characters in all of fiction, if you ask me. You and he have been led down a garden path, which is rather a slippery slope. God is love, God is good, and the commands of the Bible lead to peace.

Except Dawkins, unlike any gods, is demonstrably not fiction. The god of the Bible is not what you describe.

Funny, I've encountered a lot of philosophy in Dawkins's writings. When someone philosophizes about metaphysics, to hear you say "it's all fact!" seems like you are trying to have things both ways... Drinking Beverage

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-06-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(16-06-2015 05:29 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 08:46 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No, I hate Sauron. If it wasn't for him, Beren and Luthien Tinuviel would have had a much easier road. And why assault Minas Tirith? Because the White Tree of Gondor was beautiful and awesome? And because Sauron had failed when he tried to seduce the Numenoreans thousands of years before... what a jerk!

That and (If my aging memory serves me) Sauron was just playing second fiddle to Morgoth any way.

So a second rate, mustachio twirling villain too boot.

Is there a name for the affliction that causes skeptics to say the polar opposite of everything I say? Oh, yes, I remember--the Bible says you would.

Because the fact is the "second fiddle" did about five billion dollars at the international box office so far... Sadcryface

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-06-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(17-06-2015 08:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 05:29 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That and (If my aging memory serves me) Sauron was just playing second fiddle to Morgoth any way.

So a second rate, mustachio twirling villain too boot.

Is there a name for the affliction that causes skeptics to say the polar opposite of everything I say? Oh, yes, I remember--the Bible says you would.

Because the fact is the "second fiddle" did about five billion dollars at the international box office so far... Sadcryface

Oh sorry. I'm just trying to remember back to the books and all the 'pre-history' Tolkien created with the Silmarillion etc.

The movies were good, but I would have preferred if Jackson had stayed closer to the books. Not like their wasn't enough material.

Much cheers to all.
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17-06-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(17-06-2015 08:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 05:29 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  That and (If my aging memory serves me) Sauron was just playing second fiddle to Morgoth any way.

So a second rate, mustachio twirling villain too boot.

Is there a name for the affliction that causes skeptics to say the polar opposite of everything I say? Oh, yes, I remember--the Bible says you would.

Because the fact is the "second fiddle" did about five billion dollars at the international box office so far... Sadcryface

Take your shit to a Christian board if you want agreement from dunder headed lemmings.
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17-06-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(17-06-2015 08:17 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-06-2015 02:06 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @The Q Continuum

Nobody will ever take your hatred of Sauron very seriously. Of course you don' like him he is the villain of the story and he is just a fictional character. You can hate what he represent, but since he doesn't exist, you can't hate him personally unless of course you think he does a bad job at being a villain.

On another note, let’s make a little thought experiment. The Christian God exist. He created the world and human in its own image. What tells us he is good?

What tells us God is good?

* You know what good is--even if as a skeptic, you will devoutly refuse to say good and evil can be objective rather than subjective terms--unless of course, I try to say that Hitler would be a good person in the eyes of a skeptic! Sorry to Godwin you, but...

* Repeating... you know what good is...

* You judge others for being not good...

* You are well on the way thusly to an understanding of God's goodness. Since "good" is a concept that can be objectified yet not an object in and of itself, you will need some kind of goodness scale before judging God's goodness. You need a measuring system... keep going...

That doesn't tell me how you can say that God is good.

Still in our thought experiment. God created the human, but never gave them the ability to know good and evil and thus judge things according to those principles. The Serpent convinced Eve to eat the apple that contained the knowledge of good and evil and she, in turn, convinced Adam to do the same thing. God was very mad when he discovered it. He told us not to do it. It was his only rule. He damned humans and cursed the serpent for doing that. Since God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we ate his knowledge of good and evil. Thus, God knows evil. Since God knows evil this means he can be evil if he wants to. Why is he not?
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