Someone who denies God.
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19-06-2015, 09:20 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(18-06-2015 08:56 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 08:51 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  As most skeptics, you are missing the point. First, prove that hunger and mass whatever are evil.

At the risk of a Godwin, Hitler and millions of followers said causing hunger and mass death was GOOD. The burden of proof is on them... and on you.

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


Why are you using Hitler on an atheist website?

How come y'all can call NTS on me for saying someone is NOT a Christian, but I can't invoke the same fallacy on you for saying someone IS a theist? Be consistent.

I KNOW that Hitler said he was in the will of God, but you dodge that we KNOW Hitler said he was the true Messiah ushering in a millennial reign! Since he was saying he had the office of Jesus, you can call Hitler a theist, or a pretend pope, perhaps, but hardly a devoted Christian or even Catholic.

PS. Hitler is great to mention on an atheist website because his morality, his notions of good and evil, have things in common with that of you skeptics: it's a Wild West of anything goes and believe what feels good. You are on the same slippery slope. I'm commanded to love my neighbor, you have no such command. That makes you more likely to become Hitler than I--deny it if you will--but skeptics have no reason to be good and they certainly disbelieve in objective "good" let alone "righteousness"! Hitler wasn't righteous and neither are atheists. Does that help clarify God's position?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-06-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(18-06-2015 04:19 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @The Q Continuum

You have dodge the question again. Why is God good. Saying he is good because he has a good nature is tautologic. How can we say he has a good nature? You can create the univers and still be a monumental you know what, just like you can father or mother a child and be a monster to him or her.

Is it a mere tautology, so let's define terms.

What is "good"? It seems a metaphysic construct to me, and if you tell me "the good of society" you are merely being circular.

Once you tell me what is good, who is good, and whether you and I are good, I will have terms I can use to tell you how good God is. Go ahead.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-06-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(18-06-2015 08:58 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 08:51 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  As most skeptics, you are missing the point. First, prove that hunger and mass whatever are evil.

At the risk of a Godwin, Hitler and millions of followers said causing hunger and mass death was GOOD. The burden of proof is on them... and on you.

As most believers you have only shitty apologies and idiotic excuses. Though what else I can expect from someone who is indoctrinated? Admiting that favorite invisible friend is evil or indifferent? No way god is good cause we believe that he is good. No other reason are needed.

It's hard to admit anything unless you can explain good and evil to me (and to yourself).

Hitler says "Killing Jews is good."

You say "Killing Jews isn't good."

Whom should I believe? Thank God I have some indoctrination to lean upon.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-06-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 08:58 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  As most believers you have only shitty apologies and idiotic excuses. Though what else I can expect from someone who is indoctrinated? Admiting that favorite invisible friend is evil or indifferent? No way god is good cause we believe that he is good. No other reason are needed.

It's hard to admit anything unless you can explain good and evil to me (and to yourself).

Hitler says "Killing Jews is good."

You say "Killing Jews isn't good."

Whom should I believe? Thank God I have some indoctrination to lean upon.

If you really need some shitty space wizard from equally shitty book to know that killing people whose only "fault" was being Jew is wrong then I don't have anything more to say to you.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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19-06-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:20 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 08:56 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


Why are you using Hitler on an atheist website?

How come y'all can call NTS on me for saying someone is NOT a Christian, but I can't invoke the same fallacy on you for saying someone IS a theist? Be consistent.

I KNOW that Hitler said he was in the will of God, but you dodge that we KNOW Hitler said he was the true Messiah ushering in a millennial reign! Since he was saying he had the office of Jesus, you can call Hitler a theist, or a pretend pope, perhaps, but hardly a devoted Christian or even Catholic.

PS. Hitler is great to mention on an atheist website because his morality, his notions of good and evil, have things in common with that of you skeptics: it's a Wild West of anything goes and believe what feels good. You are on the same slippery slope. I'm commanded to love my neighbor, you have no such command. That makes you more likely to become Hitler than I--deny it if you will--but skeptics have no reason to be good and they certainly disbelieve in objective "good" let alone "righteousness"! Hitler wasn't righteous and neither are atheists. Does that help clarify God's position?

How can you know how devoted a person is or not? How do you proclaim to know things you constantly claim you know?

Do you simply mean you know he doesn't fit YOUR view of what a devout person would have to be? If you don't make assertions and proclamations of knowledge that go beyond your human fallible capabilities. You might be able to have more knowledge in regards to communicating in ways people don't deem trollish.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-06-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hitler says "Killing Jews is good."

You say "Killing Jews isn't good."

Whom should I believe? Thank God I have some indoctrination to lean upon.
God said killing non-Jews was good.
Good thing you have that as a basis for what is "good".

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19-06-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 04:19 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @The Q Continuum

You have dodge the question again. Why is God good. Saying he is good because he has a good nature is tautologic. How can we say he has a good nature? You can create the univers and still be a monumental you know what, just like you can father or mother a child and be a monster to him or her.

Is it a mere tautology, so let's define terms.

What is "good"? It seems a metaphysic construct to me, and if you tell me "the good of society" you are merely being circular.

Once you tell me what is good, who is good, and whether you and I are good, I will have terms I can use to tell you how good God is. Go ahead.

So you say God is good and has a good nature, but I have to tell you what good is? If you don't know what good is, how can you say God is good and has a good nature? You still didn't answer the question. Since it’s the fifth time or so I asked you why you thought God was good and you still didn’t told me why, I am starting to consider you are afraid to answer the question honestly because you think I might found the reason invalid or stupid. My opinion on your potential reason should be unimportant to you. Don’t try to please me or impress me or gain any form of extra ration of respect from me. I ask you for your opinion on a subject that has very little impact on me out of intellectual curiosity. The nature of God (good, evil or anything in between) won’t make him more or less real for me. I will still be an atheist and you will still be a faithful. I might give you my opinion on the subject once you explained me yours if it interest you, but for now I would like to hear you on that subject. How and why can we say that God is good?
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19-06-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:41 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 09:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is it a mere tautology, so let's define terms.

What is "good"? It seems a metaphysic construct to me, and if you tell me "the good of society" you are merely being circular.

Once you tell me what is good, who is good, and whether you and I are good, I will have terms I can use to tell you how good God is. Go ahead.

So you say God is good and has a good nature, but I have to tell you what good is? If you don't know what good is, how can you say God is good and has a good nature? You still didn't answer the question. Since it’s the fifth time or so I asked you why you thought God was good and you still didn’t told me why, I am starting to consider you are afraid to answer the question honestly because you think I might found the reason invalid or stupid. My opinion on your potential reason should be unimportant to you. Don’t try to please me or impress me or gain any form of extra ration of respect from me. I ask you for your opinion on a subject that has very little impact on me out of intellectual curiosity. The nature of God (good, evil or anything in between) won’t make him more or less real for me. I will still be an atheist and you will still be a faithful. I might give you my opinion on the subject once you explained me yours if it interest you, but for now I would like to hear you on that subject. How and why can we say that God is good?

He's not evading because he thinks you will scoff at the answer. He's evading because he doesn't have an honest answer.
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07-07-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(19-06-2015 09:41 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 09:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is it a mere tautology, so let's define terms.

What is "good"? It seems a metaphysic construct to me, and if you tell me "the good of society" you are merely being circular.

Once you tell me what is good, who is good, and whether you and I are good, I will have terms I can use to tell you how good God is. Go ahead.

So you say God is good and has a good nature, but I have to tell you what good is? If you don't know what good is, how can you say God is good and has a good nature? You still didn't answer the question. Since it’s the fifth time or so I asked you why you thought God was good and you still didn’t told me why, I am starting to consider you are afraid to answer the question honestly because you think I might found the reason invalid or stupid. My opinion on your potential reason should be unimportant to you. Don’t try to please me or impress me or gain any form of extra ration of respect from me. I ask you for your opinion on a subject that has very little impact on me out of intellectual curiosity. The nature of God (good, evil or anything in between) won’t make him more or less real for me. I will still be an atheist and you will still be a faithful. I might give you my opinion on the subject once you explained me yours if it interest you, but for now I would like to hear you on that subject. How and why can we say that God is good?

All,

God is good because he judges fairly and impartially, offers His love to all, even the most vile persons, saves us and redeems those who trust in Him, changing their lives here and now and in the next world, etc. I can think of dozens of reasons, but the fact remains--for you or I to define God as good, bad or in-between will require some basic definitions, e.g. what is "good".

I would say a just person is good. I would say a just and wise parent sometimes causes deliberate suffering in a child's life--"Do your homework, clean your room, brush your teeth before you play hopscotch outside". Some atheists here feel all suffering is evil. So they would say both God is evil AND most parents are evil. How can we discuss terms when those kinds of definitions are held by atheists? I don't think we can...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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07-07-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Someone who denies God.
(07-07-2015 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 09:41 AM)epronovost Wrote:  So you say God is good and has a good nature, but I have to tell you what good is? If you don't know what good is, how can you say God is good and has a good nature? You still didn't answer the question. Since it’s the fifth time or so I asked you why you thought God was good and you still didn’t told me why, I am starting to consider you are afraid to answer the question honestly because you think I might found the reason invalid or stupid. My opinion on your potential reason should be unimportant to you. Don’t try to please me or impress me or gain any form of extra ration of respect from me. I ask you for your opinion on a subject that has very little impact on me out of intellectual curiosity. The nature of God (good, evil or anything in between) won’t make him more or less real for me. I will still be an atheist and you will still be a faithful. I might give you my opinion on the subject once you explained me yours if it interest you, but for now I would like to hear you on that subject. How and why can we say that God is good?

All,

God is good because he judges fairly and impartially, offers His love to all, even the most vile persons, saves us and redeems those who trust in Him, changing their lives here and now and in the next world, etc. I can think of dozens of reasons, but the fact remains--for you or I to define God as good, bad or in-between will require some basic definitions, e.g. what is "good".

I would say a just person is good. I would say a just and wise parent sometimes causes deliberate suffering in a child's life--"Do your homework, clean your room, brush your teeth before you play hopscotch outside". Some atheists here feel all suffering is evil. So they would say both God is evil AND most parents are evil. How can we discuss terms when those kinds of definitions are held by atheists? I don't think we can...

If the gods can be judged to be good, then the standard is external to them, and always was. Reality therefore has always been larger than your cute little deity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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