Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
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12-02-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(10-02-2017 11:01 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  I was having an argument with a person on the video that showed a sterotype Muslim dress up, dropping a package and shouting 'Allah Akbar' or something like that.
Another everyday guy dressed up normal like dropped the same thing and said 'Praise Jesus'

Needless to say I have no soul and I found this to be funny. The comments even more funny.

But I've noticed with both sides of Muslim and Christians, they have a 'Cherry Picking Horrible Religions Texts' battle. Taking quotes from both books and showing how horrible they are, taking things out of context and all that shabang.

But I've notice this trend of cherry picking as have others. Only this cherry picking is all horrible parts. Which there are really horrible things in the bible and Quran. I never seem to hear anything about this kind of Cherry Picking.
It's also rather fun to act childish on youtube with people like this as its all 'nahnah can't top that' sort of thing. And Yes I have been guilty of jokingly doing this also, because there is no way to win a youtube argument so have some fun in my opinion (I have no heart Big Grin )

So why is everyone can name every Muslim terrorist group, but can claim christian terrorist groups are not 'real' Christians. Isn't this the same argument? Not all Muslim terrorist follow the Quran, so they are not 'real' Muslims right?
But they claim they are Muslims and cherry pick verses from the Quran to prove it.

Okay that's all good and well, but Christian Terrorist are real Christians and here are verses to prove it (I'm fairly sure everyone here has read the verses I'd post so I wont' bother.)

I've noticed these trend for a while now, but it seems like I've not found one video talking about this or even pointing it out. Or maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

I wonder if atheists, such as Harris who attempt to draw distinction between the two can be accused of cherry picking as well, or if they are accurate:




"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-02-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
Quote:Only this cherry picking is all horrible parts.

There are many to choose from.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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12-02-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(11-02-2017 01:23 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  There are no "real" Christians or Muslims, or whatever. If you say you're a Christian, you're a Christian. No human has the authority to say someone else isn't a particular religion. Of course, your particular version of the religion may not be at all like other peoples'. That's the nature of religion, since none of it is based on reality.
You'll get no argument from me here, but back in my Christian daze I would have trotted out the old chestnut that living in a garage doesn't make you a car. My point being that self-identifying as Christian doesn't make you a Real Christian™.

And there is some truth to that -- there IS a substantive difference between cultural identification as Christian in some generic sense, vs claiming to believe some standard creedal definition of faith, vs actually sincerely attempting to live it out. However, as you point out, what it means to be a Christian is SO subjective and ego-ridden that it's impossible for someone who is not you to judge the validity of YOUR self-identification. The only thing anyone can legitimately do is to accept the testimony of others as to what they believe / think / feel. It is hubris, vanity and utter impertinence to do otherwise.

The reason people like my former self resist this is that it is a tacit admission that "spiritual" truth is completely subjective and self-determined at the end of the day. And that flew in the face of our Biblical inerrantism and our knowledge claims about absolute capital-T Truth. Fundamentalism is not about DOING right, it is about BEING right, and we had a MASSIVE need to be right at all costs. Not least because to be wrong is to "have no hope" and ultimately to burn forever.
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12-02-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(11-02-2017 09:25 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hmm... how many resident theists are there here?

Admittedly I've only just returned, but it feels like there is a lot less than I was used to at the previous forum. I'm not complaining, most of them were intolerable and I had them on ignore anyway. Just interested!

I'm a resident theist. Shai Hulud and Kingschosen are also in my camp.
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12-02-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
Aliza: Hello there, nice to meet you Smile

Mordant: Thanks for sharing! I've never been religious, so it helps me to hear such perspectives. You hit on an important point, when a religious person debates a sceptic: the religious person (often) has to be right; they will lose something if they are not. The sceptic doesn't have to have any particular beliefs, but merely updates them if they are found to be suspect.

I feel I can be fairly impartial on the discussion and analysis of God/religion, because I don't give a fuck whether any of it is "true" or not. It would make no different to me either way.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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12-02-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(12-02-2017 10:19 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 09:25 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hmm... how many resident theists are there here?

Admittedly I've only just returned, but it feels like there is a lot less than I was used to at the previous forum. I'm not complaining, most of them were intolerable and I had them on ignore anyway. Just interested!

I'm a resident theist. Shai Hulud and Kingschosen are also in my camp.

We're glad you're here too. I think the major difference is that you, KC and Shai, have taken part in other areas of the forum. Complaints and sharing positive things are part of life and something we all carry in common. In other words you don't focus on what divides but rather choosing to embrace the similar. At least that's how I see it.

I don't really have a huge issue with Tomasia and sometimes alla isn't so terrible -- she can be funny at least -- even if she doesn't realize it.

There are other theist types that come here just to argue and tell us how wrong we are -- those I have the least tolerance for and I'll be honest while I have to read their crap, I don't really get involved.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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13-02-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(12-02-2017 10:19 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 09:25 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Hmm... how many resident theists are there here?

Admittedly I've only just returned, but it feels like there is a lot less than I was used to at the previous forum. I'm not complaining, most of them were intolerable and I had them on ignore anyway. Just interested!

I'm a resident theist. Shai Hulud and Kingschosen are also in my camp.

Your camp is pretty spread out, your theologies are very different. Very. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-02-2017, 11:32 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(12-02-2017 11:44 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I don't give a fuck whether any of it is "true" or not. It would make no different to me either way.
If the fundevangelist truth were True, it would matter to you because if not in alignment with it you would be headed for eternal perdition. Keep in mind, fundies truly believe this. That is why they are always trying to save your eternal soul*. They believe you WOULD "give a fuck" if you understood what they believe to be True. And while I in no way buy that their beliefs represent reality anymore, I understand this about them.

* Either that or they are smugly consigning your soul to hell, seeing it as self-inflicted stupidity / obstinacy and deserved comeuppance. Just depends on how much empathy / compassion / humility is left in their shriveled little souls.
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13-02-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(13-02-2017 07:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 10:19 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm a resident theist. Shai Hulud and Kingschosen are also in my camp.

Your camp is pretty spread out, your theologies are very different. Very. Drinking Beverage

It's true. Sometimes I think I have more in common with the atheists than with the Christians, but when classified as atheist or theist, I clearly and unambiguously belong with KC and Shai. They make good company anyways.
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13-02-2017, 11:40 AM
RE: Something I've Noticed When Debating Theists
(13-02-2017 11:32 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(12-02-2017 11:44 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I don't give a fuck whether any of it is "true" or not. It would make no different to me either way.
If the fundevangelist truth were True, it would matter to you because if not in alignment with it you would be headed for eternal perdition. Keep in mind, fundies truly believe this. That is why they are always trying to save your eternal soul*. They believe you WOULD "give a fuck" if you understood what they believe to be True. And while I in no way buy that their beliefs represent reality anymore, I understand this about them.

* Either that or they are smugly consigning your soul to hell, seeing it as self-inflicted stupidity / obstinacy and deserved comeuppance. Just depends on how much empathy / compassion / humility is left in their shriveled little souls.

Sure, that may well be happening. But I wouldn't change how I act. I'm not going to spend my life following arbitrary rules I don't agree with just to please this evil monster, when he can easily just turn around and dump me in hell anyway. So I'd just ignore it and carry on. It would be depressing to know something like that was in charge, but there's nothing I could do about it.

In other words, they may also be headed there. You can't exactly trust this guy. He's clearly deranged.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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