Something about receipts...
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27-07-2012, 02:59 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2012 04:07 AM by Filox.)
Something about receipts...
OK, I have a seemingly stupid question, but there is a local reason for my question.

When you go to shop, supermarket, market, any type of shop, you buy something, the clerk on cash register charges the products you just bought and they print out the bill for that.

What do they do with the bill? Or better yet, what do you do with it?

Do you take it with you, do you leave it there?

This is the most important question, can you get a fine from a police officer if you do not take the bill with you, when you leave the shop?

-------------------------------------------------

The story: I am asking this because my country is pretty retarded. We have the law that will punish the shop with pretty big fines if they do not print out the bill, but they will even punish the customer if they do not have the bill with them when they leave the shop, but that fine is much lower that the one for not printing the bill.

That law was introduced at least 15 years ago, but now we have a new government and they have decided to revive this law and, since today is a recession, the country deems it necessary to try and take as much money as they can, so now we have some new, undercover inspectors that wait for people in front of the big shops and ask them to show them the bill. If they do not have the bill, they call 2 police officers and then they ask the ID and you get a ticket (around 40$).

Is this shit normal in your countries? The more different countries I hear, the better.

Why do I need to take the bill, where is the logic in this, what should I do with the bill, who cares about me having a bill or not and what difference does it make to anyone?

Thank you.

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27-07-2012, 03:14 AM
RE: Something about bills...
For the customer to have the bill:

It shows you are not stealing your items. This way they can cross check the receipt with the items on your person to make sure they are all accounted for. An example here in Canada is the company Costco, they do it for every person leaving the building. Another one is called Extra Foods, sometimes they are more random, but one especially needs their receipt for large ticket items (TV,s cameras, etc).

For the teller: The company needs the bill to make sure that tellers aren't skimming cash or giving away free items. All money needs to be accounted for, each cashier checks in and out with his or her float/tally. If something goes wrong, they can go through the list of items and find out with exactly what transaction it happened.


In order for a company/ law enforcement to arrest or accuse someone of theft they need to catch the person in action. Once you;ve left the store you can throw away the receipt and so you don't need to prove anything.

That's my understanding, anyway Smile
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27-07-2012, 03:31 AM
RE: Something about bills...
Yes, we have security people in big shopping centres that check your bill, so that they can check that you did not steal something, but this is not that kind of case. We are talking about big and small supermarkets and undercover police, not mall security.

Also, their explanation (official) for this is to be sure that the clerk on cash register actually printed the bill and gave it to you, they do all this to make sure that every shop is printing their bills and not avoiding paying taxes.

This is illogical because all the products have bar code and all the cash registers have bar code readers, so there is no way that I could pay for anything and that the clerk will not print me the bill. It is 100% impossible for a clerk in a shop to do it.

As far as I can see this, they just want to take more money from people that did nothing wrong. I personally do not take the bill for food, because I have nothing to do with that bill, except throw it away. since I do not want to throw papers on the street, I do not take the bill, but leave it on the counter, so that the clerk can throw it in the garbage can. A logical thing to do.

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27-07-2012, 03:50 AM
RE: Something about bills...
(27-07-2012 03:31 AM)Filox Wrote:  Yes, we have security people in big shopping centres that check your bill, so that they can check that you did not steal something, but this is not that kind of case. We are talking about big and small supermarkets and undercover police, not mall security.

Also, their explanation (official) for this is to be sure that the clerk on cash register actually printed the bill and gave it to you, they do all this to make sure that every shop is printing their bills and not avoiding paying taxes.

This is illogical because all the products have bar code and all the cash registers have bar code readers, so there is no way that I could pay for anything and that the clerk will not print me the bill. It is 100% impossible for a clerk in a shop to do it.

As far as I can see this, they just want to take more money from people that did nothing wrong. I personally do not take the bill for food, because I have nothing to do with that bill, except throw it away. since I do not want to throw papers on the street, I do not take the bill, but leave it on the counter, so that the clerk can throw it in the garbage can. A logical thing to do.

Bar codes don't prove shit. Bar codes are just a number given to a product. All of that product have the same bar code. So say a 600ml vanilla coke will have the same bar code as another but a different bar code to a 320ml pet vanilla coke.
When you scan an item it sends that number to the computer. You then assign that number to the corresponding product.
An item is logged into the computer (ie: I could scan something a thousand times and there'd be no computer records of it) only when an eftpos/credit card or whatever else transaction goes through.

Businesses need to keep a copy of the receipt (pfft, "bill") for themselves for tax proof purposes. ie: If the tax people want to snoop around you can prove that this is what you purchased for how much and this is what you have sold for how much.

I imagine that this push to make sure people receive a receipt is to stop business corruption. ie: if you pay with cash and I don't give you a receipt (because I didn't put the transaction through on the computer and thus have no receipt to give) I can file that money in the till and claim a tax rebate on goods that I have sold by saying they were damaged or stolen.

Don't complain, I thought you'd be happy that your government is trying to stop an issue no doubt costing the country a bit of tax payer money.

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27-07-2012, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2012 04:06 AM by Filox.)
RE: Something about bills...
Receipt, not bill, yes, sorry about that...

A good point ears, but not exactly how it works in reality. I take 2 Coca Colas and I come to pay it with cash. The clerk says: That would be xy $. I take out my money and pay. But how does he know It costs xy $? Because he scanned them with bar code reader and the cash register gave him the exact price, then he printed that bill and gave it to me.

I have never, ever in my life come across any store that didn't give me a receipt, except the one I used to work, but we were completely illegal, so that does not count.

You see, without the bar code a clerk can not know how much all the products cost, he would need to use a calculator or something. They all use bar codes and they all print receipts.

So if a police officer is to stop me and ask me for my receipt, it is not in my pocket, but 10 meters behind me. They will not go and check did the clerk actually print it out, they are not interested in that, but they will take me to the police station to question me, because I will not give them my ID, or anything else. I hate these kind of illogical things.

P.S.
One other thing just came to my mind. Everyone can stop the receipt, after it has been printed. You can cancel any receipt you record, so if a manager wants to cheat on his taxes, it is very easy to do it, after the shop is closed. That is why everyone always give out the receipts, there is no reason not to do it.

Do my question make any sense after these details?

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27-07-2012, 04:25 AM
RE: Something about bills...
(27-07-2012 04:02 AM)Filox Wrote:  Receipt, not bill, yes, sorry about that...

A good point ears, but not exactly how it works in reality. I take 2 Coca Colas and I come to pay it with cash. The clerk says: That would be xy $. I take out my money and pay. But how does he know It costs xy $? Because he scanned them with bar code reader and the cash register gave him the exact price, then he printed that bill and gave it to me.

I have never, ever in my life come across any store that didn't give me a receipt, except the one I used to work, but we were completely illegal, so that does not count.

You see, without the bar code a clerk can not know how much all the products cost, he would need to use a calculator or something. They all use bar codes and they all print receipts.

So if a police officer is to stop me and ask me for my receipt, it is not in my pocket, but 10 meters behind me. They will not go and check did the clerk actually print it out, they are not interested in that, but they will take me to the police station to question me, because I will not give them my ID, or anything else. I hate these kind of illogical things.

P.S.
One other thing just came to my mind. Everyone can stop the receipt, after it has been printed. You can cancel any receipt you record, so if a manager wants to cheat on his taxes, it is very easy to do it, after the shop is closed. That is why everyone always give out the receipts, there is no reason not to do it.

Do my question make any sense after these details?

NO you don't get it. Bar codes have nothing to do with receipts. Bar codes is the system the scanning machine tells what product to appear onscreen.
You can delete that product off screen, it doesn't mean it's been paid for.
It's not actually 'paid for' until the person behind the computer actually accepts the sale, until they tell the computer yes this person has paid.
Like I said, I could scan something a thousand times, it doesn't do anything but bring it up on screen a thousand times.
Scanning it brings it up on the computer or till with how much that item is.
So I could scan a coke, it will appear on screen to me as 1x Coke $3.50. You scan multiply items and it'll give you the total at the bottom.
All this and nothing has actually registered on the system. I can delete that coke off screen if I want. I add more items etc..

The only way to print a receipt is to actually process it through the system.
So I scroll down to 'cash' if it's by cash and hit accept or enter or whatever and it goes through the system and sits in the invoices. A receipt is then printed, or I can choice to print one however the system works.
Some businesses may print the receipt twice, one for you one for the business that they keep in a pile behind the counter or some may use some sort of computer system.

Either way, receipts have nothing to do with bar codes.
After all, I could search for the item in a list of items and select it that way.
I could enter a pluu (shortcut) as another way of bringing the item onscreen (used for newspapers mostly I suspect). Or shortcut keys on the keyboard or till.

And yes you have a point about supervisors being able to remove the sale from the invoice list, BUT it is all recorded and someone could see that a sale went through but was later credited back.

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27-07-2012, 04:34 AM
RE: Something about receipts...
Man you are such a hair splitter. First of all EVERYONE uses bar code readers today. I fucking know that scanning an item means nothing, that is why I have fucking said "then he printed that bill and gave it to me". The PRINTED part means that he has concluded the transaction and put it through cash register. This part is not in question, EVERYONE does it, I get the receipt EVERY time.

Can you now IGNORE that and focus back to: Is it OK for the police to give you a ticket if you do not take the receipt from clerk?

And can you get a ticket for that in your country?

Thank you.

Big Grin

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27-07-2012, 04:39 AM
RE: Something about receipts...
Deffo not OK. That's completely stupid. I don't give a shit if they catch more criminals. If their method of catching criminals involves treating *everyone* like a criminal and making them carry stupid pieces of paper then *they* are more of a problem that the criminals. Fuck that.
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27-07-2012, 04:48 AM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2012 04:52 AM by Filox.)
RE: Something about receipts...
(27-07-2012 04:39 AM)morondog Wrote:  Deffo not OK. That's completely stupid. I don't give a shit if they catch more criminals. If their method of catching criminals involves treating *everyone* like a criminal and making them carry stupid pieces of paper then *they* are more of a problem that the criminals. Fuck that.


You have no idea how retarded it is to walk out of the shop, come near your car, while talking with your friends and an undercover cop comes to you, pulls out the badge and asks you for the receipt and the if you have forgotten to take it, he wants to charge you a 40$ fine... They have NOTHING better to do? I know at least 10 ways to use the financial inspectors for things that actually need them to check.

P.S.

If they are concerned about shops that don't give out the receipts and thus avoid paying taxes, wouldn't it be logical then to go through their books and make a stocktaking (an inventory), so that they check the actual shop and their books, not the customers. Also, they charge the fines only to customers, they do not care about the shops. WTF?

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