Something puzzling
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08-01-2013, 10:46 PM
Something puzzling
Down in the Boxing Ring thread with KC, he said something rather firmly that god knows everything. If that's true, then did god also make atheists? Are we in a spiritual purgatory? Or were we created to test the faith of Christians?

I just find this a bit confusing.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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08-01-2013, 10:54 PM
RE: Something puzzling
(08-01-2013 10:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Down in the Boxing Ring thread with KC, he said something rather firmly that god knows everything. If that's true, then did god also make atheists? Are we in a spiritual purgatory? Or were we created to test the faith of Christians?

I just find this a bit confusing.

God wants you to be confused.

Don't question it!

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08-01-2013, 10:57 PM
RE: Something puzzling
If it's true, then yes, we were created by God.

But who are you to judge God.. he can do it so he did. Evil_monster

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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08-01-2013, 10:59 PM
RE: Something puzzling
Then some of us are sentenced to hell. Unless he (god) decides to change our minds?


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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08-01-2013, 11:00 PM
RE: Something puzzling
(08-01-2013 10:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Down in the Boxing Ring thread with KC, he said something rather firmly that god knows everything. If that's true, then did god also make atheists? Are we in a spiritual purgatory? Or were we created to test the faith of Christians?

I just find this a bit confusing.


Why not? If God created the entirety of the universe to just be window dressing for the benefit of those on Earth, why not create a few non-believers to test the faithful? And the mountains of evidence that suggest there is no God, why not create that to? It's all a test after all, right?

This is how insidious religious double-think can be, even doubt can be turned around to reinforce faith...

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09-01-2013, 12:47 AM
RE: Something puzzling
(08-01-2013 11:00 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-01-2013 10:46 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Down in the Boxing Ring thread with KC, he said something rather firmly that god knows everything. If that's true, then did god also make atheists? Are we in a spiritual purgatory? Or were we created to test the faith of Christians?

I just find this a bit confusing.


Why not? If God created the entirety of the universe to just be window dressing for the benefit of those on Earth, why not create a few non-believers to test the faithful? And the mountains of evidence that suggest there is no God, why not create that to? It's all a test after all, right?

This is how insidious religious double-think can be, even doubt can be turned around to reinforce faith...

Yes, it does smack of sadism. Yet. It falls in line with things I was told -- like the whole thing with Judas was part of god's plan -- so when he hung himself, judas was forgiven -- because he was part of the plan.

Yet, Eve taking the bite of the apple was the root cause for thousands of years as an excuse for women to be oppressed. It's why we have pain in child birth. At least that's what we told -- if there is no "free will" and god basically set up Eve to fail and knew she'd drag Adam down too...why not just make them aware from the start? Why does it always seem like god enjoys this cloak and dagger stuff?

I really wish I didn't think of these things...it's far easier to be a "believer".


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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09-01-2013, 01:01 AM
RE: Something puzzling
(09-01-2013 12:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Yes, it does smack of sadism. Yet. It falls in line with things I was told -- like the whole thing with Judas was part of god's plan -- so when he hung himself, judas was forgiven -- because he was part of the plan.

Yet, Eve taking the bite of the apple was the root cause for thousands of years as an excuse for women to be oppressed. It's why we have pain in child birth. At least that's what we told -- if there is no "free will" and god basically set up Eve to fail and knew she'd drag Adam down too...why not just make them aware from the start? Why does it always seem like god enjoys this cloak and dagger stuff?

I really wish I didn't think of these things...it's far easier to be a "believer".

Well, unfortunately for us, the correct path is rarely the easiest one.

Also the story of Judas hanging himself in Mathew contradicts the one in Acts where he is forcibly struck down personally by God, with his guts spilling out all over the place.

But what can you expect from bronze age fables, created by and for ignorant people to explain the world around them? Of course it doesn't hold up to even a passing modern scrutiny, but that doesn't stop billions of people the world over from using it every day as an excuse to stop thinking for themselves.

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09-01-2013, 01:02 AM
RE: Something puzzling
(09-01-2013 12:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  it's far easier to be a "believer".
Shocking No it's not ??? You have to find somehow a non-bullshit interpretation for everything that shakes your faith, or you have to just stop being curious and elevate praying and other such boring activities to the status of the best thing you can think of doing. Or dumb yourself down to a level where the religious shit makes some sort of sense.


I had a friend at uni who was good at physics. After a while he became a bit of a JC freak. Now he's still a productive member of society, but the last conversation I had with him was along the lines of he'd decided God had given him the power to do miracles. What miracles you ask ? Well, he could pray for a human to be symmetrical. God wants you to be symmetrical. I kid you not, this was the level... Sadcryface I did suggest testing to be absolutely sure but somehow that wasn't terribly important. He's a happy man now. Got a pretty girlfriend, goes to the same church. Works hard, is useful.

Here I sit, reasonably happy but not, I suspect, as happy as him, unable to even for a moment entertain this believer idea... belief is hard.

Dodgy
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09-01-2013, 01:34 AM
RE: Something puzzling
(09-01-2013 01:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-01-2013 12:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  it's far easier to be a "believer".
Shocking No it's not ??? You have to find somehow a non-bullshit interpretation for everything that shakes your faith, or you have to just stop being curious and elevate praying and other such boring activities to the status of the best thing you can think of doing. Or dumb yourself down to a level where the religious shit makes some sort of sense.


I had a friend at uni who was good at physics. After a while he became a bit of a JC freak. Now he's still a productive member of society, but the last conversation I had with him was along the lines of he'd decided God had given him the power to do miracles. What miracles you ask ? Well, he could pray for a human to be symmetrical. God wants you to be symmetrical. I kid you not, this was the level... Sadcryface I did suggest testing to be absolutely sure but somehow that wasn't terribly important. He's a happy man now. Got a pretty girlfriend, goes to the same church. Works hard, is useful.

Here I sit, reasonably happy but not, I suspect, as happy as him, unable to even for a moment entertain this believer idea... belief is hard.

Dodgy
For me I think its harder to believe. There is so much crap you have to justify and "figure out"


But I have to say morondog....I'm not sure if your friend is "happy" or "delusional" Unsure No offense to you.

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09-01-2013, 01:46 AM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2013 01:51 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Something puzzling
(09-01-2013 01:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  Here I sit, reasonably happy but not, I suspect, as happy as him, unable to even for a moment entertain this believer idea... belief is hard.

Dodgy


Belief isn't hard, beliefs are constructed by our minds with the facts we are aware of. I can claim gravity no longer applies to me, be that doesn't mean I could actually force myself to believe that was true and go walking off the top of my house without worry. I have too much evidence in my mind attesting to the reality of gravity for me to actually believe it no longer applies to myself.

Faith is easy, faith is belief without or in the face of evidence. So you don't need any evidence, and you can simply ignore whatever is inconvenient, that's super easy.

What can make faith hard? Cognitive dissonance. But how does that happen? By gaining an education, knowledge, and critical thinking skills; all of which require time, effort, and energy. Staying ignorant and easily swayed by blind faith is easier the less you know; it's a vicious cycle really.

So be happy you have a finely attuned bullshit detector, even if it does require constant maintenance and calibration.

I know mine does! Thumbsup

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