"Something was created from nothing"
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31-07-2014, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2014 10:52 AM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
"Something was created from nothing"
So I'm watching one of seth's videos, awesome as usual. (this one actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDPfknwq8U) Anyway, I think big bang, and I'm like wow! 'something from nothing' how incredible. To me this is the theists' best argument. Myself, I think, well, I don't really know how it happened, but just because it happened doesn't mean God. "Correlation doesn't mean causation"

What are your thoughts on this. I know what I would say, but what would you say if someone came up to you with this argument. my mind is boggled. I guess it's possible for there to be a God, and it is quite an elegant solution to this senario, but again correlation does not mean causation. hmmmmmmm


http://youtu.be/8XmtW_fIj68
^lol, but for real what do you think

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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31-07-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
There was never "nothing."

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31-07-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
Saying god created the universe is not causation, it is just "an explanation", and as far as explanation goes its non to enlightening. Physics people tell me that we live in a "zero sum energy universe". If you add up all the energy and subtract gravity and matter you end up with zero total energy. This means that the universe could have conceivably "popped into" existence, without needing any addition energy. Thus the "universe from nothing". It's way above my head, someone else might be able to explain this better.

This Lawrence Krauss video might interest you



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31-07-2014, 11:02 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
(31-07-2014 10:44 AM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  So I'm watching one of seth's videos, awesome as usual. (this one actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDPfknwq8U) Anyway, I think big bang, and I'm like wow! 'something from nothing' how incredible. To me this is the theists' best argument. Myself, I think, well, I don't really know how it happened, but just because it happened doesn't mean God. "Correlation doesn't mean causation"

What are your thoughts on this. I know what I would say, but what would you say if someone came up to you with this argument. my mind is boggled. I guess it's possible for there to be a God, and it is quite an elegant solution to this senario, but again correlation does not mean causation. hmmmmmmm


http://youtu.be/8XmtW_fIj68
^lol, but for real what do you think

God is still something from nothing. No amount of mental gymnastics can eliminate that problem. The only difference is that god happens to be a thinking, all-knowing, judging being who is deeply interested in your sex life. When placed next to all other possibilities (and really, what isn't a possibility when discussing the origins of the universe), the god option looks pretty ridiculous.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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31-07-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
There was NEVER nothing.

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31-07-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
(31-07-2014 11:06 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  There was NEVER nothing.

Can you explain this in layman's terms. Are you speaking from the point of view of a Buddhist: the universe always was and always will be; it never started (no big bang) and never will end. OR are you talking big bang. I'll have to research some big bang documentaries and learn a little bit more about it I guess

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31-07-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
Mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is no evidence that the universe was ever in a state of "nothing" [ie, no mass energy]. The Big Bang marks the start of our universe, and of time. We start with something -- mass-energy. There is never a "time" that mass-energy did not exist. Before we start asking questions about how something came from "nothing," it is incumbent on us to prove that "nothing" was the state of the universe prior to the presence of "something." Scientifically, there is no such proof (nor could there be). Even as you listen to Krauss in the video above, you see that he describes "nothing" in scientific terms rather than in philosophical terms. In scientific terms, "nothing" doesn't exist. [It's always something].

The notion that the universe is "created" from "nothing" in the philosophical sense of "nothing" is a myth. It presumes a time of "nothing" that cannot be supported by the evidence. It's pure philosophy. It is not science.

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31-07-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
(31-07-2014 11:02 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  God is still something from nothing.

Interesting and would be true.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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31-07-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
(31-07-2014 11:15 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is no evidence that the universe was ever in a state of "nothing" [ie, no mass energy]. The Big Bang marks the start of our universe, and of time. We start with something -- mass-energy. There is never a "time" that mass-energy did not exist. Before we start asking questions about how something came from "nothing," it is incumbent on us to prove that "nothing" was the state of the universe prior to the presence of "something." Scientifically, there is no such proof (nor could there be). Even as you listen to Krauss in the video above, you see that he describes "nothing" in scientific terms rather than in philosophical terms. In scientific terms, "nothing" doesn't exist. [It's always something].

The notion that the universe is "created" from "nothing" in the philosophical sense of "nothing" is a myth. It presumes a time of "nothing" that cannot be supported by the evidence. It's pure philosophy. It is not science.

If you are trying to prove that energy always existed then you have to define energy in a different way. All forms of energy basically measure two things; light and motion. You can't have either without space, and space certainly did not exist before the big bang. Correct me if I am wrong, I am not a physics major.
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31-07-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: "Something was created from nothing"
Correct. However, note my wording, because it is careful: Time is also a function of space. What I said was, there never was a "time" that mass-energy did not exist. There is no such thing as "before the Big Bang." A difficult concept to grasp for a mind as finite as mine, but it is what science teaches. Beyond that, we're above my pay grade. Wink

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