Son vs Father
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08-01-2014, 02:00 PM
Son vs Father
Background: I'm the son, I've been atheist for about 5-6 years now. I'm 18.

Me: I have a few questions about the Bible's Adam and Eve story.
Dad: Sure, what is it?
Me: First off, God made Adam and Eve as adults right? He didn't make them kids?
Dad : Well I would assume so, it doesn't say otherwise.
Me: Ok, but since they were the first of their kind, it's safe to assume they'd have the same mental capacity as a toddler, correct?
Dad: Well no, they'd know farming, how to communicate (I cut him off)
Me: Well ok, but they wouldn't know our have any critical thinking skills. They'd react to stuff there same way a toddler would, right?
Dad: Well I guess so... why?
Me: Ok, well if I was a toddler again, would you ever put a loaded gun near me and say "Now Ryan, this is very dangerous. Don't touch this. By the way, I'm going to the store to get dinner. I'll be back in an hour"?
Dad: Of course not! The first thing you'd do is play with it and probably hurt yourself or do some damage to the house! What kind of question is that??
Me: Ok, do in the garden Good put the tree of forbidden fruit, which is the knowledge of all the bad things right?
Dad: Yes...
Me: So, that could be compared to a loaded gun? Right?
Dad: I guess, what's your point?
Me: How could a "loving father" in essence, give kids a loaded gun and just leave? We all know what would happen. Isn't he all-knowing and all-powerful? Don't you think he set them up for failure?
Dad: No of course not, he gave them a chance. They chose wrong.
Me: You just agreed that Adam and Eve had the mental capacity of toddler, and that the tree was a metaphoric loaded gun. Even if they had the mental capacity of a current day adult it would be human nature, which he designed, to want it and eventually take it. So he set us up for failure in the beginning, and now punished the entire human race for the mistake of two people?
Dad: Well no... because he forgave us.
Me: No he didn't, we still have disease, wars, famine, etc in every part of the globe.
Dad: Yes he did, with the second Adam. And the flood!
Me: A second Adam?? The hell?
Dad: Yes, the second Adam. You'd know about it if you read your Bible!
Me: Ok, go on. Tell me all about him.
Dad: (goes on about Jesus dying on the cross and how he's the second Adam)
Me: Why didn't you just say Jesus in the first place? Seriously, and besides that, what exactly did that get us? No more blood sacrifices to get forgiveness? That's nice, but what about all the death, disease and destruction still going on?
Dad: Well yeah, it basically made all the rules of the old testament void.
Me: HA! Tell that to the "God hates fags" people.
Dad: What're you talking about?
Me: That's in the old testament, so according to you should be null and void.
Dad: Well... some rules are more important than others...
Me: Wow... you're cold.
Dad: No I'm not, it's in the Bible!
Me: The same book that instructs on how to own, sell and beat slaves? Or how to sell your daughters and what do if they do not please their masters?
Dad: There's a lot of historical references in the Bible, besides, in the old testament.
Me: *facepalm* I think we're done discussing this now.
Dad: See, you can't argue with religion.
Me: As I'm still learning... you ever figure out what inertia is?
(earlier in the year dad tried to argue with me about physics when I was in the class. That ended with "well scientists think we came from monkeys so how right could anything they say be?")
Dad: Shut up, don't you disrespect me.
Me: Disrespect? Really? You're gonna pull that? Well why don't you kill me in the name of your God? That's what your Bible tells you to do.
Dad: Oh really? Where is that?
Me: (quotes Exodus 21:15)
Dad: You probably took that out of context...
Me: Really? Seems pretty straight forward to me...
Dad: Well not in the Bible is suppose to be taken literally!
Me: Oh? Which parts? A list would be nice...
Dad: I don't have one, you should be able to figure it out! Just read it!
Me: Ok...have you actually read it cover to cover? Because you seem surprised at a lot of quotes I'm throwing at you.
Dad: Of course have! I believe every word of it! It's all the word of god!
Me: No, it's the word of man. Besides that, you just said it's not all literal. Why would god give unclear instructions if he knew we would fight over it?
Dad: We don't fight over it, you do!
Me: Ever hear of the Crusades?
Dad: No, why?
Me: Google it, I'm saving my breath. Later.
---
So, what do you guys think? (obviously this isn't word for word, but pretty close). Plus I got of typing, so I skipped the whole Noah's ark part of the argument which was pretty funny because he was totally lost...

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If your God can't be bothered to personally reveal himself to me, then I can't be bothered to worship him.
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08-01-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Son vs Father
I think you have no chance of making sense with him. I'm sorry.

Many verses are like silver threads
tied on the chimes of the stars-
if you pull them,
a silver peal makes the horizon vibrate.
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08-01-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Son vs Father
I think there's hope, neurons seem to still be functional, it will be a long long journey though

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08-01-2014, 03:38 PM
Son vs Father
Patience is all I can recommend. The more you lose your patience with him the more you discredit yourself in his eyes and damage any chances of redemption. Don't give up on him.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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08-01-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Son vs Father
(08-01-2014 03:38 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Patience is all I can recommend. The more you lose your patience with him the more you discredit yourself in his eyes and damage any chances of redemption. Don't give up on him.

This is so true. Still very hard, though he is still my father.

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08-01-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Son vs Father
(08-01-2014 02:29 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I think there's hope, neurons seem to still be functional, it will be a long long journey though

Yeah, I made him question himself when I disproved the famous biblical prophecies...one by painstaking one...

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08-01-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Son vs Father
(08-01-2014 02:05 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  I think you have no chance of making sense with him. I'm sorry.

Probably, but I still try.

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08-01-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Son vs Father
Almost everything he said is something I've heard Christians say again and again, mostly in various debates.

"God is a thought who makes crooked all that is straight." - Nietzsche

You can follow/read my blog on religious text and things related at: http://alookatholytext.wordpress.com/
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08-01-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Son vs Father
(08-01-2014 03:59 PM)SpaceMonkey Wrote:  Almost everything he said is something I've heard Christians say again and again, mostly in various debates.

It's funny, I realised the same thing when typing this out lol

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08-01-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Son vs Father
You seem awfully familiar to me.

Consider

Are you sure you're from Cali?

You just really remind me of someone named Ryan, who is 18, and is considering atheism; likewise, his father sounds like your father...

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