Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
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19-02-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
The only correct answer is "I don't know - and neither do you." Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
While it's true that no one actually knows and that this is correct answer to give to Christians, an alternative answer that is probably more effective is 'Bog off and stop pestering me".

The OP is probably interested in understanding what theories there are out there. I am certainly interested myself. When I read another theory from a physicist in The New Scientist I often think to myself "You're just making this shit up now aren't you ..." This is a discussion forum and it would be good if there were any physicists out there giving their views on all the different theories mentioned here.

I've since found a link to the black hole theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Smolin#..._selection
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19-02-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
For the sake of comparison go back 1000 years and imagine they ask you the question of who creates the lightning bolts and you don't know about electricity yet. Same shit different day.
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19-02-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
(19-02-2014 10:16 AM)donotwant Wrote:  For the sake of comparison go back 1000 years and imagine they ask you the question of who creates the lightning bolts and you don't know about electricity yet. Same shit different day.

Without understanding the science that underlies a phenomenon it can be difficult to know what the cause of it is. The difference between now and a thousand years ago is that today most of us know that we don't know yet instead of just writing it off as a supreme being.

Hate the belief, love the believer.
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19-02-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
If we do find a cause, it will be a day the earth stood still.
Although regardless of how conclusive the proof, I'm sure the "Faithfull" will dismiss it.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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19-02-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
(19-02-2014 10:35 AM)sporehux Wrote:  If we do find a cause, it will be a day the earth stood still.
Although regardless of how conclusive the proof, I'm sure the "Faithfull" will dismiss it.

The fact that there are YECs is proof that even the most convincing evidence can be ignored. Weeping

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
(18-02-2014 08:37 PM)Pearl Wrote:  Looking around online trying to pump myself with all sorts of information for when I get into a real life debate with a "believer", I keep finding the issue of this. When it comes down to it, the christians always seem to be able to end the argument when they point out that even if evolution and the big bang were true, where did the first "stuff" come from?

I know a handful of devout christians that believe in evolution and the big bang and their entire premise for continuing to believe in a god rest on the notion that something can't come from nothing so there has to be a something or someone.

I find this hard to argue with and it often leaves me with a dumbfounded look on my face, so I ask you all, where did the first "stuff" come from do you think?
From nowhere. This "stuff" is eternal. Gods use this eternal material to organize what ever They want to organize. Prophet Joseph Smith calls this stuff "unorganized matter" or "chaos"

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19-02-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
(18-02-2014 08:37 PM)Pearl Wrote:  Looking around online trying to pump myself with all sorts of information for when I get into a real life debate with a "believer", I keep finding the issue of this. When it comes down to it, the christians always seem to be able to end the argument when they point out that even if evolution and the big bang were true, where did the first "stuff" come from?

I know a handful of devout christians that believe in evolution and the big bang and their entire premise for continuing to believe in a god rest on the notion that something can't come from nothing so there has to be a something or someone.

I find this hard to argue with and it often leaves me with a dumbfounded look on my face, so I ask you all, where did the first "stuff" come from do you think?
They are uncomfortable not knowing where the first "stuff" came from so they insert "God" as the explanation and are somehow perfectly comfortable not knowing where he/she/it came from. They also tend to be fine with claiming that "he/she/it always existed", but refuse to accept that anything else could have always existed. It's the ultimate hypocrisy.

So I usually point out that all they are really doing is labeling the first "stuff" as "God" - which in itself has no meaning. "God" could be nothing more than an atom. There is nothing about being first that automatically implies intelligence, life, self-direction, or anything else. So, if they want to label the first stuff "God", fine. But why...? Why not just call it "stuff"?

Answer:
Woo Drinking Beverage

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19-02-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
(19-02-2014 03:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 08:37 PM)Pearl Wrote:  Looking around online trying to pump myself with all sorts of information for when I get into a real life debate with a "believer", I keep finding the issue of this. When it comes down to it, the christians always seem to be able to end the argument when they point out that even if evolution and the big bang were true, where did the first "stuff" come from?

I know a handful of devout christians that believe in evolution and the big bang and their entire premise for continuing to believe in a god rest on the notion that something can't come from nothing so there has to be a something or someone.

I find this hard to argue with and it often leaves me with a dumbfounded look on my face, so I ask you all, where did the first "stuff" come from do you think?
From nowhere. This "stuff" is eternal. Gods use this eternal material to organize what ever They want to organize. Prophet Joseph Smith calls this stuff "unorganized matter" or "chaos"

Evidence or GTFO. Cunt.

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19-02-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Soooo where did the first "stuff" come from?
Mass-energy cannot be created or destroyed.

"Time" as we know it began at the Big Bang. There was no "before the Big Bang." But if you want to think in those terms, the only thing to say would be that "before the Big Bang" all the mass-energy that exists today existed then, except in a different form (nothing but energy). There is no evidence that there was ever a time when mass-energy did not exist. Creationists assume there was nothing, and that something came from nothing. But there is no evidence that there was ever "nothing."
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