Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
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23-05-2017, 09:16 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 09:08 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  According to your fairytale book he killed 250 million people because he couldn't do what ordinary people do everyday of the year.....they forgive others. And they forgive others without requiring a blood sacrifice.

Your biblical god makes Stalin and Hitler look like sweet little girls at a tea party , so yeah, your deity is a big fucked up dick.

Don't forget he killed 40 children because they made a joke about a guy being bald.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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23-05-2017, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2017 09:24 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 07:49 PM)socialistview Wrote:  A jewish friend told me that God Yaweh from the jewish religion says that all others religions did human sacrifices and By law God gave said to not do human sacrifices. As i studied more into the canaan conquest i have read that the canaans already knew about what God did for the jews in egypt(to add to my argument my jewish friend told me that when the isrealites were laugh at the egyptian soldiers drowning God said those are my children too just they needed to be punished for oppressing.) and trembled but did not change their ways. Do you think its was still unjustified for god to genocidally kill canaan for human sacrifice? Blush

...

... okay, first, I lean towards the idea that it didn't go down like that and the entire Exodus account is a myth, including the Canaan conquest. I read the Canaanite conquest as a past mythology of where the (then-present) divisions of the local tribes came from. The jews of the era aggrandized their history and conquests to absurd levels, each time claiming the backing of a god and defaming their foes. So while I'll answer your question, I'll answer it in much the same way that I'd answer questions about what Frodo should have done with the Ring or why Luke confronting Vader was important. To me, this is a discussion of fiction out of the fantasy genre. (Yes, Star Wars is fantasy. Bring on the flames.)

Now as for justification.... we'd have to ask what counts as justification. There are several competing philosophies on the matter. Divine Command Theory would say, yes, quite clearly, because anything God does is just by the simple fact of God saying it. (Not that God won't do it if it becomes just, but it BECOMES just if God does it.) So, commanding rape? Just if God does it. Genocide? Just if God does it. Incest? Just if God does it. This makes a complete hash of any notion of objective morality (since morality now changes based on the subject who is acting) as well as getting away from the root of why we would CARE whether something is moral in the first place.

Under ethical egoism (essentially, look-out-for-number-one, perhaps including enlightened self-interest) it MIGHT be justified from the Jewish perspective because it gets them the Holy Land. From God's perspective? Not so much. He has no needs to meet with this course of action, and no desires that can't instead be met through a figurative snap of His omnipotent fingers.

By a nihilist model, it's not justified. Nothing is justified. Justification is a non-existent concept.

By a deontological model, definitely not. If genocide is immoral, it's immoral for anyone.

By a utilitarian model, definitely not. An omnipotent god would have better means at his disposal that did far less harm. For the same reason, it would be unjustified by an altruistic model.

Your question here seems to be on the basis of a virtue-based morality. In this, people who are good or do good things deserve rewards and those who are evil or do evil things deserve punishments. Exact definitions of good and evil vary from model to model. By labeling human sacrifice as evil, one then arrives at the belief that people who engage in human sacrifice deserve punishment.

So under such a model, did the Canaanites deserve genocide at the hands of the Jews, who then received their lands for their virtues?

No.

Because the Jews, who were slaughtering the Canaanites at God's behest, to receive and maintain God's blessing, and who angered God when they slaked in their slaughter... were ALSO engaged in human sacrifice. What else is that EXCEPT human sacrifice?

And remember WHY God was giving the Jews the Holy Land. It wasn't because of how good they were. It was because of God's covenant with Abraham, maintained (somehow) through circumcision.

And the reason that God made a covenant with Abraham? Was because of Abraham's willingness to butcher his favorite son upon command.

So, NO. The argument that the Canaanites should have been slaughtered at the hands of the Jews because the Canaanites engaged in human sacrifice makes no sense in the slightest.

The only moral framework proposed in the Bible is this: Complete devotion and obedience to God, in all things and in all ways, are the only virtues. Individuals and people who do this deserve reward. Those who do not, be it through active defiance (such as Onam), complete accident (the poor guy who touched the Ark trying to keep it from dropping), not knowing better (the ruler who got tricked into thinking he was marrying a guy's sister rather than already-wedded wife), or people who just never had any choice whatsoever (two-year-old Canaanite boys) deserve death. This is true whether God command the most enlightened coexistence and compassion, or the most barbarous crimes against humanity, or anything in between. God can command you to steal and it becomes good, to rape and it becomes good, to murder and it becomes good. And it only stops being good if God commands otherwise.

This is divine command theory, in all its arbitrary, subjective capriciousness.
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23-05-2017, 09:18 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2017 09:32 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
All total nonsense.
The Hebrews themselves also practiced child sacrifice.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-cult-of-moloch
There was no Exodus. Egypt controlled the entire Near East / Levant.
Leaving Egypt for another area still controlled by Egypt makes no sense.
They made it up.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-05-2017, 11:00 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
There are two creator gods, the Supreme Creator God and Ahriman/Satan/Demiurge. Everything the Supreme Creator makes is beautiful and good, while everything Satan makes is twisted and evil. There also exists Lucifer, not to be confused with Satan. Lucifer and Satan are like the two sides of a coin. Lucifer is the lesser of two evils, while Satan is the greater. Lucifer works on humanity through the breath and the blood, while Satan works on humanity through the nerves. Satan craves for blood, like a vampire. Making a blood pact with Satan is like spiritual suicide, the soul is lost and delivered to the shadow realm to be disintegrated.
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23-05-2017, 11:27 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 11:00 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are two creator gods, the Supreme Creator God and Ahriman/Satan/Demiurge. Everything the Supreme Creator makes is beautiful and good, while everything Satan makes is twisted and evil. There also exists Lucifer, not to be confused with Satan. Lucifer and Satan are like the two sides of a coin. Lucifer is the lesser of two evils, while Satan is the greater. Lucifer works on humanity through the breath and the blood, while Satan works on humanity through the nerves. Satan craves for blood, like a vampire. Making a blood pact with Satan is like spiritual suicide, the soul is lost and delivered to the shadow realm to be disintegrated.

Cool story. Needs more dragons.

.........

.... also, how is it even remotely on-topic for this thread?
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23-05-2017, 11:31 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 11:00 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are two creator gods, the Supreme Creator God and Ahriman/Satan/Demiurge. Everything the Supreme Creator makes is beautiful and good, while everything Satan makes is twisted and evil. There also exists Lucifer, not to be confused with Satan. Lucifer and Satan are like the two sides of a coin. Lucifer is the lesser of two evils, while Satan is the greater. Lucifer works on humanity through the breath and the blood, while Satan works on humanity through the nerves. Satan craves for blood, like a vampire. Making a blood pact with Satan is like spiritual suicide, the soul is lost and delivered to the shadow realm to be disintegrated.

How far did you have to dig up your ass to pull this one out? Or is this intended to be satire. Either way I agree with the above, needs more dragons.

But really this is so far removed from anything anyone I've ever heard of is into I'm really curious where the fuck you got it.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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23-05-2017, 11:37 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 11:00 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are two creator gods, the Supreme Creator God and Ahriman/Satan/Demiurge. Everything the Supreme Creator makes is beautiful and good, while everything Satan makes is twisted and evil. There also exists Lucifer, not to be confused with Satan. Lucifer and Satan are like the two sides of a coin. Lucifer is the lesser of two evils, while Satan is the greater. Lucifer works on humanity through the breath and the blood, while Satan works on humanity through the nerves. Satan craves for blood, like a vampire. Making a blood pact with Satan is like spiritual suicide, the soul is lost and delivered to the shadow realm to be disintegrated.

This has to be a Poe. Nobody can be that brainwashed. Nobody.
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23-05-2017, 11:42 PM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(23-05-2017 11:00 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  There are two creator gods, the Supreme Creator God and Ahriman/Satan/Demiurge. Everything the Supreme Creator makes is beautiful and good, while everything Satan makes is twisted and evil. There also exists Lucifer, not to be confused with Satan. Lucifer and Satan are like the two sides of a coin. Lucifer is the lesser of two evils, while Satan is the greater. Lucifer works on humanity through the breath and the blood, while Satan works on humanity through the nerves. Satan craves for blood, like a vampire. Making a blood pact with Satan is like spiritual suicide, the soul is lost and delivered to the shadow realm to be disintegrated.

> And your evidence for this fanciful tale is.....???? Consider
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24-05-2017, 12:08 AM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
Everybody chill out, I obtained my information from the works of Rudolf Steiner, I don't take it seriously and neither should any of you. I was merely trying to illustrate how ridiculous something like that is.
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24-05-2017, 12:11 AM
RE: Sorry for the last post wrong word but to ask is God actually a bad guy.
(24-05-2017 12:08 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  Everybody chill out, I obtained my information from the works of Rudolf Steiner, I don't take it seriously and neither should any of you. I was merely trying to illustrate how ridiculous something like that is.

Mission accomplished Thumbsup

Now if you'll excuse me I may have some new books worth reading.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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