Sorry humans, this was not put here for us.
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15-03-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: Sorry humans, this was not put here for us.
(15-03-2016 03:40 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 01:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Even if a Christian, Jew,Muslim, etc. believed in the true age of the earth/universe or in evolution it still doesn't jive with what their Bible says. It's going to get pretty ridiculous the more we progress as a species. Pretty soon, every part of the Bible will be seen as a metaphor for something, what will be the point of believing it anymore? Even the morality of it gets questioned so often it will fall apart unless they can somehow prove without a doubt any of the mystical,magical nonsense was ever real and it won't happen. I find it funny when they try to prove the great flood happened or Sodom and Gomorrah were real places, it still doesn't discount any of the science, that's what they need to focus on. Even if they suddenly found Noah's ark, it's not like we're all gonna say "Oh wow, they found a very big wooden boat. That must mean Yahweh and Jesus are real, woman was mad from a rib, a man lived a fish, etc."

Okay, I can’t really speak for Christians and Muslims because these religions proselytize and they are asking you to believe in their book, but you did include Jews in your post, and I’m marginally qualified to speak for Judaism. If Jews accept the true age of the universe (and we largely do), then how we explain our heritage and religious texts to ourselves is really our own business. We are absolutely 100% not interested in convincing the non-Jewish world to believe Judaism at all.

As I pointed out in post #36, Jews have been regarding certain scripture as metaphorical for at least 1,000 years. This didn’t come about because some dark-age Jews dug up a tyrannosaurus rex and needed to make a radical change to Jewish thinking to account for the apparent age of the bones. Our rabbis, sages and scholars said this because the text alludes to an old universe, and because Judaism, by its defining principles, is flexible and intended to grow with humanity, not stunt it.

I read the wiki article and it was pretty interesting. I looked at one of the citations and it seems like one of the ideas for the older universe is the idea of Sabbatical cycles. From the text that was cited ( Immortality, Resurrection, and the Age of the Universe: A Kabbalistic View by A. Kaplan): "The world will exist for 6,000 years, and in the 7,000 year it will be destroyed. The 7,000 year cycle is one sabbatical cycle. However since there are 7 sabbatical cycles in a Jubilee, the world is destined to exist for 49,000 years. There is some question as to which cycle we are in today. Some authorities maintain that we are currently in the 2nd sabbatical cycle. [As such], the universe would have been 42,000 years old when Adam was created."

From the same text: There's also the Midrash that mentions that God created and destroyed universes. In the Talmud, there were 974 generations before Adam. From Psalms 105:8: "Remember forever His covenant, a word He commanded for a thousand generations." Kaplan states: " The Torah was destined to be given after 1000 generations. Since Moses was the 26th generation after Adam, there must have been 974 generations before Adam."
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15-03-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Sorry humans, this was not put here for us.
(15-03-2016 04:45 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 04:39 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  7 billion humans. Muslims think they have the right religion. Christians think they have the right religion. Jews think they have the right religion. Buddhists think they have the right religion. Hindus think they have the right religion. And all of them don't want to accept that there was no written religions or boarders 200,000 years ago. None of them want to accept that our species was NOT around 4 billion years ago, much less 14 billion years ago. None of them want to accept that our galaxy has billions of suns in it. A galaxy in which it takes 100,000 years at the speed of light for a ray of light to cross it. None of them want to accept that there are 100s of bilions of galaxies in the known universe. NO this was not put here for humans.

You forget to mention us atheists! What about us?Big Grin

We have the muslims, the jews, the christards, the hindus, the buddhists (well maybe not the buddhists) against us. Don't we deserve a mention?
Well yes, the universe was put here for us atheists!
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15-03-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: Sorry humans, this was not put here for us.
(15-03-2016 03:40 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 01:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Even if a Christian, Jew,Muslim, etc. believed in the true age of the earth/universe or in evolution it still doesn't jive with what their Bible says. It's going to get pretty ridiculous the more we progress as a species. Pretty soon, every part of the Bible will be seen as a metaphor for something, what will be the point of believing it anymore? Even the morality of it gets questioned so often it will fall apart unless they can somehow prove without a doubt any of the mystical,magical nonsense was ever real and it won't happen. I find it funny when they try to prove the great flood happened or Sodom and Gomorrah were real places, it still doesn't discount any of the science, that's what they need to focus on. Even if they suddenly found Noah's ark, it's not like we're all gonna say "Oh wow, they found a very big wooden boat. That must mean Yahweh and Jesus are real, woman was mad from a rib, a man lived a fish, etc."

Okay, I can’t really speak for Christians and Muslims because these religions proselytize and they are asking you to believe in their book, but you did include Jews in your post, and I’m marginally qualified to speak for Judaism. If Jews accept the true age of the universe (and we largely do), then how we explain our heritage and religious texts to ourselves is really our own business. We are absolutely 100% not interested in convincing the non-Jewish world to believe Judaism at all.

As I pointed out in post #36, Jews have been regarding certain scripture as metaphorical for at least 1,000 years. This didn’t come about because some dark-age Jews dug up a tyrannosaurus rex and needed to make a radical change to Jewish thinking to account for the apparent age of the bones. Our rabbis, sages and scholars said this because the text alludes to an old universe, and because Judaism, by its defining principles, is flexible and intended to grow with humanity, not stunt it.

I only included Jews because it's still the same God, it's the first version of the Abrahimic religions so it's all tied up together but like most denominations there can be different interpretations. It's interesting that with Judaism they were freely admitting the age of the universe way before others for so long while not really having the scientific knowledge to prove it until now but like Christianity and Islam there is a lot of mysticism that can't be proven. I appreciate that Jews don't care about converting anyone,I wish all religious people were the same. Of course you can interpret your religious texts however you choose to.

What I was really trying to say in my post is that religion and science can't mix, if anytime there is a scientific discovery that proves something about a religion is false, they can say "Well, it was a metaphor!" until eventually it's all not making sense and it's all a metaphor? So by then what's the point in believing any of it is true? It's not just about the age of the Earth/universe, it could be anything.

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