Spaceship "TTA"
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06-10-2011, 11:42 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
(06-10-2011 04:12 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Meanwhile, monkeyshines, would you please take Thammuz out behind the spaceship and educate him on women's rights, while everyone sings very loudly.

I take offense in your statement. You imply that I don't respect women the way they should. Everybody knows I'm all for women's right: the right to vacuum clean, make sandwiches and massage my feet after a hard day of work. Hell, I'm practically a feminist! You should know better!

[Image: Hidden_trollface1.png]

On a more serious note; what about laws, constitutions etc. ?
Since our community will undoubedtly grow, some degree of law would be necessary, unless we opt for a more anarchistic laissez-faire. Would we use something existing or just do everything from scratch?
It might not be the most urgent of things, but the absence of rules will cause problems. Zat already mentioned government styles, I suppose they're closely related.

A police / peacekeeping force might also come in handy when the community starts to grow. I'd rather avoid violence altogether, but limited resources will lead to conflicts...

About my skills:
-security management
-some skills that are pretty useless in the beginning, like linguistics, ethics, law and psychology
-damn... no technical skills: Maybe I'd have to create a school so that we can educate people in the areas where a shortage of skill is noticed. That might be a good contribution.

I wonder; isn't there some kind of video game / MMORPG with this kind of theme?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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07-10-2011, 12:27 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
Well if we are bringing families I guess my husband is coming too, so I speak for him in this game.

Jasen- Engineering- General electrical (He and I made many alt energy stuff for our house and to sell and he works on aircraft radios as well).

Me- Engineering - General Electrical- Education- I could help train people for our department.

I vote we kinda do a rotating jury duty sort of tribunal as conflict resolution. However I think we should have people trained specifically to explain how the tribunal works, keep the court room procedures, and help write laws with the people who are currently serving.

Perhaps that is how it should be, we all rotate into the government, with the government being divided into law and conflict. Those that have the permanent job to administer this should be people who were lawyers or administrators on Earth.

Back to the TTA..

Right now the Engineering Electrical department should be setting up simple bike dynamos and collecting parts for solar and wind.

The civil engineering (the umbrella for waste/water/building) department should be working with representatives from all departments for town planning.

And the training department should be looking for smart volunteers to be trained.

Our color is orange and the seal of the engineering department is a Raven, clever and resourceful.

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07-10-2011, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2011 02:10 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
I can fill Ezra Pound's position. I got 5 other people depending on me. How much are we willing to pay for a poet/poetry critic in this new world?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-10-2011, 05:27 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
hunting (if the planets natives are bigger than us than we may need elephant guns.)
can do grunt work.
Limited tribal knowledge.
basic survival knowledge.

So what kind of creatures live on this planet? and I assume the planet has breathable air.
What happens if we encounter primitive lifeforms that are intelligent enough to craft basic tools? like the Eosapiens from Alien Planet.
What do we do about security? something is going to get curious of our ship eventually and try to investigate, some Earth animals "investigate" with their teeth, so if they're anything like Earth animals than we need a way of keeping them out.
I don't know how well it would work but mammals on Earth can be warded off by a male humans urine(testosterone warns them of competition). I can see a few problems with this, obviously the first thing is it probably wouldn't work, the second is that we could recycle the fluids instead. I think one of the most basic and logical fortifications we could build is a trench around the ship, or if we're only exposed on one or 2 sides than trenches there. The trenches could be filled with what the Vietnamese call "pungi sticks" a pungi stick is a sharpened stick coated in human feces, very deadly, especially to alien life forms who have never been exposed to our bacteria. So we need people to gather something that can be carved, then we need them carved(zatamon), then we need some "donations". Once we have that we're in business and we can make a basic perimeter.

What kind of technology is on the ship? I assume we had a security center, and possibly auto-mated maintenance robots, we know our ship will never fly again so I think we need to start re-purposing things. We can modify some of the robots with programming from the security center to act as sentries. Even if they just got smashed by whatever lives in the area we crashed in, they could still be an early warning system. Perhaps the first expedition should be the robots instead of the very valuable crew members we have.
I'm looking forward to how this plays out Big Grin I like these kind of "civilization - do it again!" scenarios.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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07-10-2011, 07:02 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
There i was, sitting on top of a nice hill, watching my fellow Earthlings in the clearing below run around with spears and wrenches and spades, forming into work-crews, and thinking to myself, "Aren't we just the greatest? Pretty soon, there will be a cell-phone factory down there, surrounded by acres of parking lot," when i heard:

Quote:Holy shit, we are doomed.

That's the last thing i heard on my former planet!
Wait a minute....
Do we need to start farming and constructing? I mean, when you harness something - a horse, a river, even the wind - you're tied to the reins - a prisoner of your own power. We spent our whole history on Earth enslaving and being enslaved; building and tearing down civilizations; overpopulating and exterminating. Do we want to start that cycle again?
Do we have to work at all? Do we even need energy sources?
If we stayed in the subtropical zone, maybe all the food we need grows on trees; maybe all the clothes we need is a palm-frond to keep the sun off our heads; maybe all the shelter we need is an overhanging rock in heavy rain.

We see an animal, and we think: kill it rather than communicate with it.
We see a planet, we think colonize and subdue, rather than understand and adapt.
My first thoughts were for the safety of my own skin. But nothing has threatened it, so far. If we encounter no hostility, why offer any? And UnderTheMicroscope is the first earthling who considered the possibility of intelligent indigens. Suppose they're all sentient - or the whole planet is?
It's not too late to take a different approach.

On a practical note, Defacto7, i can draw reasonably well, but have an erratic sense of direction.
Only, don't count on me. I'm tempted to wander off in search of wood-nymphs.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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07-10-2011, 08:03 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
Some really good points Peterkin. (I sure hope you volunteer to learn about the way I farm. You'll love it)

I think we are at a point where we need to know some of the details about our new home. Zat,, tell us what we see.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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07-10-2011, 09:20 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
(07-10-2011 08:03 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I think we are at a point where we need to know some of the details about our new home. Zat,, tell us what we see.

My all time favorite book, through my childhood, was Jules Verne’s “Mysterious Island”. This island is what I had in mind when I imagined the planet we would have landed on. Those of you familiar with the book can easily visualize our new home. There is also a computer game (a very good one) called "Mysterious Island", based on Verne's novel and it gives you a lot of visual clues. For the rest, here is a brief description of what we see and what we know.

The spaceship is broken up enough to make it unpractical for permanent shelter. We use it temporarily until better accommodations can be built.

We are very close to the shore of a very large lake (like Lake Superior) and we have a nice lagoon and sandy beach at one point. The lagoon is a natural harbor that could be used for boats, should we decide to build one.

We are on a fairly large meadow (at least 2-3 miles across) but we see a tree line of a dense old-growth forest on the horizon. We located a good-size clean freshwater stream flowing into the lake. The stream will need some kind of a bridge for convenient crossing but we can wade it, because it is only waste deep.

In the distance we see a volcanic-looking mountain, about 3-4000 feet high, partly covered with forest but we also see huge rock faces on the north side. Closer to where we are there is a smaller hill, that is almost all granite.

On our first exploration we see animal tracks, small and large, so caution is advised.

The climate of the planet is mild temperate with four seasons, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, but plenty of snow and rain.

We don’t know yet if there are sentient and/or intelligent life forms but we have not seen any sign of it. Using some instruments that survived in the space ship, we checked for radio signals or any kind of electromagnetic waves – we found none, so high tech possessed by natives (if any) is out.

In the spaceship we have plenty of food to last us for months is necessary, so no immediate panic. We have an almost intact workshop we could use for making basic tools and we have metal, glass and plastic that we can salvage from the ship. We have about a dozen side-arms, owned by the now demised crew, but only limited amount of ammunition. These hand guns need to be distributed among those who know how to handle them safely. Because of the large animal tracks we saw, we need to have guards posted at all times, until we know if they are dangerous. The scouting parties also need to take some with them -- not for hunting (very limited ammunition) but self-defense if necessary.

We don’t have any pets or plants/seeds in the space ship, so we have to rely entirely on the local flora and fauna. The good side of this is that we don’t contaminate the planet with non-indigenous life forms, other than ourselves.

We arrived in the middle of the spring season, after all the snow melted, so we have plenty of time to get ready for winter but, of course, we don’t know this yet.

I think this is enough to get started with, we will discover a lot more once we start exploring.

I will soon post a revised and expanded organizational charts and a list of concerns expressed by the participants -- like environment protection, some form of council that we need to make decisions and organize our activities.

I will assume that we agree on having our husbands/wives/partners with us, and some children who came with us on the cruise.

I would like to ask every member of our little game to describe the skills their partners can contribute as well, just as it was already started by monkeyshine.

OK, this is all for now, more coming later.

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07-10-2011, 11:06 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
Quote: monkeyshine89:
Perhaps that is how it should be, we all rotate into the government, with the government being divided into law and conflict. Those that have the permanent job to administer this should be people who were lawyers or administrators on Earth.

Only, i don't think anyone should have a permanent job in administration. That's the way power is accumulated. If everybody, without exception or excuses, takes a turn at running things, then everyone knows exactly how it's done and can't be lied-to; we would all be able to spot an abuse instantly - and nobody has enough time in office to be worth corrupting. Plus, of course, if an administrator dies or eats the ga-ga-fruit or needs time out to learn the banjo, things won't get all snarled up, because anyone with no pressing other business can step into their spot.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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07-10-2011, 11:08 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
I am ready to post the revised organizational charts and the list of people who offered skills so far. I also suggest (as opposed to my previous suggestion) that we restrict the membership of our colony to only those who have offered skills and their partners/family. According to my count (unless I missed something), so far we have 11 members. The advantage of a small group is that we don't have to worry about law and government at the beginning. This number can increase if more people join us in our little game.

Please make corrections/suggestions for anything you like and I will incorporate them into our ‘intelligent design’ (god – are you listening?)

I assigned numbers to the different departments and sub-departments for easy reference, please sign up by listing the numbers you want to be assigned to, like 1.3, 2.1, 3.3, etc.

Please list if you have a partner/children with you and their skills as well.

OK, here is goes.

1. Production

1. Food (Farming, canning, plant-recognition, animal domestication )
2. Shelter (wood-recognition, lumber production, structural design/construction, insulation )
3. Clothing (plant recognition, fiber production, clothes design/sewing, painting/dyeing)
4. Engineering (tool-making, energy-solution, road building, construction, electric, electronic, transportation, waste-disposal, )

2 Distribution

1. Warehousing (efficient organization, safe storage)
2. Kitchen/dining (food preparation/serving)

3. Social Services

1. Education (organize/design curriculum, tests, practical, hands-on exercises)
2. Health (nursing skills, knowledge of medical plants, herbs, advanced medical experience)
3. Entertainment (music, theatre, sculpture, humour, stories, poetry, dancing)

4. Coordination

1. Prioritizing
2. Resource Allocation
3. Manpower Allocation
4. Conflict resolution

5. Scouting

1. Map making
2. Ecological (identification of fragile areas, plants, animals)
3. Source material recognition (clay, wood, metal, etc.)
4. Energy source recognition (wind, water, solar)


1. Hamata k (hunter gatherer. I have skills with spears)
2. Zatamon (Math, Physics, Frame Construction, Plumbing, Wiring, Computer Programming, violin, poetry, wood carving)
3. Stark Raving (Farming, Construction, Hunting, Dressing game, Cooking)
4. Defacto 7 (Mechanics, theatre, solar/wind energy, waste reuse and disposal)
5. Peterkin (Teaching, light nurse-skills, wine making, furniture/home design)
6. Monkeyshine (electronics, alternate energy, education, organization, leadership)
7. (partner Jasen- Engineering- General electrical)
8. Hughsie (Education, coordination, willing to learn new skills from monkeyshine)
9. Thammuz (hunting/marksmanship, education, security management)
10. GirlyMan (Computer scientist, poet and critic)
11. UnderTheMicroscope (hunting, grunt work, survival)


I have just found a solar powered computer in the space ship, so I propose that GirlyMan and I design and program a database-system for inventory management and resource allocation. I have designed several during my career and I am sure GirlyMan also knows everything about it. It could make our organization a lot more efficient and a lot less wasteful. Smile
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07-10-2011, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2011 11:14 PM by defacto7.)
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
A dark gray fog hangs unmoving. There's a mix of moist smoke and an oder of rank burning from a souvenir memory unrecognizable but familiar. Sharpened polls line the camp perimeter bathed in dung and the dripping blood of small unnamed creatures, heads impaled, sculls disfigured. In the center, a bonfire blazes and a dark human figure gazing entranced, mind impaled, disfigured. I see one swollen eye closed, the other fixed in a glare of controlled rage and fear. That eye... a glint, transparent, opaque, glaze, fire, gray diamond, flat reflection, lost memory, empty. On his head seared, burned the letters deeply etched L..... O...... T..... I can't make out the last....
.... god that eye... it's not an eye at all.... that reflection... wait..... oh god.. no.... not that.... it's ...... IT'S... IT'S ALUMINUM SIDING ! Ahhhhhhhh...

oh... woke up... god those bad dreams, I better.... get back to the project....

I think there needs to be a decision made about our long term objective. If our supplies are as handy as Zate has proposed and I can already see we have enough cumulative skills, we don't have a whole lot to worry about where basic survival is concerned. If simply staying alive is not as much an issue then we have to be thinking about our long term survival and civility. We have a nice mix of philosophies here. We have naturalists, we have industrialists, we have libertarians, we have authoritarians and plenty of room in between. I don't see how this will be contradictory to survival or civility as long as we have room to reason and no one idea is etched in stone. Stubbornness with each other will need be our enemy as much as ignorance and complacency.

I have questions:

What basic infrastructure are we building here?
For me infrastructure means.. communication, ability to move, waste/water/power and shelter all with the absolute least footprint a human can possibly make which always seems too much.

What is the long term outlook for our civilization? Are we staying here? Are we going to try to go back to earth eventually?

What is going to be our footprint on out planet?

Will there be a time to stop building and how do we know when that is? and after that, what are we going to do?

What will be the extent of our natural human instinct to explore or create?

Are there any believers that have come on this journey? (or will there be)

If we don't start balancing these issues soon, we will in the long run end up with exactly what we had before. One way or another.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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