Spaceship "TTA"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-10-2011, 05:24 PM
 
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
I have to tell you about Helen and Scott Nearing. Some of you probably know of them (I am sure Stark does), but they are two of my heroes and their lives are relevant to this thread.

Scott was a university professor in the thirties who got blacklisted, partly due to his campaign against child labour. He was 51 at the time and no hope ever to teach again in the US.

He decided to start a homestead with Helen, in Vermont, in a rundown old farmhouse.

He developed an incredibly successful homestead, with minimum technology (an old beat-up pickup truck being it), built their own stone house, developed composting to an art form, became practically self-sufficient in the middle of the Depression.

The “back-to-Earth” movement in the 60-s was hugely inspired by their example.

They were vegetarians, had no livestock, had an unheated year-around greenhouse (that inspired my own construction project this year) and had surplus crops they gave away freely. They practically used no money at all, except for gas for their truck and cement they bought for their construction (using nothing more than stone and lumber) and not much else.

They were happy, healthy (lived to be 100 and 91) creative, productive – anything most people on Earth would call a bliss. They wrote several books, partly together, partly individually, they went on lecture tours around the Globe, they inspired an entire young generation.

Why am I telling you this, in this thread?

The answer is simple.

Unless we decide on a drastically new approach to civilization, on our new planet, we will end up exactly where we are now.

The Nearings are an example of how it can be successfully done.
Quote this message in a reply
13-10-2011, 12:33 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
My problem with that is not all people could live like that. I like the heat, I like eating meat, and I like my entertainment(youtube). I'm not saying that things need to stay the same, but I think it would be possible to compromise. You don't need massive coal burning generators to give someone enough heat to comfortably heat their home. We don't need to have factory farms slaughtering animals in the thousands every day to keep us well fed.

I have also read all the posts, it just seemed a little unclear as to what course of action we would take if someone did something that affected the group negatively.

(07-10-2011 09:20 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  The spaceship is broken up enough to make it unpractical for permanent shelter. We use it temporarily until better accommodations can be built.

We are very close to the shore of a very large lake (like Lake Superior) and we have a nice lagoon and sandy beach at one point. The lagoon is a natural harbor that could be used for boats, should we decide to build one.

We are on a fairly large meadow (at least 2-3 miles across) but we see a tree line of a dense old-growth forest on the horizon. We located a good-size clean freshwater stream flowing into the lake. The stream will need some kind of a bridge for convenient crossing but we can wade it, because it is only waste deep.

In the distance we see a volcanic-looking mountain, about 3-4000 feet high, partly covered with forest but we also see huge rock faces on the north side. Closer to where we are there is a smaller hill, that is almost all granite.

On our first exploration we see animal tracks, small and large, so caution is advised.

The climate of the planet is mild temperate with four seasons, not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, but plenty of snow and rain.

We don’t know yet if there are sentient and/or intelligent life forms but we have not seen any sign of it. Using some instruments that survived in the space ship, we checked for radio signals or any kind of electromagnetic waves – we found none, so high tech possessed by natives (if any) is out.

In the spaceship we have plenty of food to last us for months is necessary, so no immediate panic. We have an almost intact workshop we could use for making basic tools and we have metal, glass and plastic that we can salvage from the ship. We have about a dozen side-arms, owned by the now demised crew, but only limited amount of ammunition. These hand guns need to be distributed among those who know how to handle them safely. Because of the large animal tracks we saw, we need to have guards posted at all times, until we know if they are dangerous. The scouting parties also need to take some with them -- not for hunting (very limited ammunition) but self-defense if necessary.

We don’t have any pets or plants/seeds in the space ship, so we have to rely entirely on the local flora and fauna. The good side of this is that we don’t contaminate the planet with non-indigenous life forms, other than ourselves.

We arrived in the middle of the spring season, after all the snow melted, so we have plenty of time to get ready for winter but, of course, we don’t know this yet.


In the meadow we could build a phalanx using wood from the nearby forests. Dig a ditch on the outside and sandwich the dug up dirt between 2 walls of wood, we could also reinforce it with scrap beams of metal from our ship. It should also have a walkway for better sentry duty.
The Phalanx should extend almost to the lagoon, near the lagoon is where the exit/entrance would be, perhaps a gate connected to a pully system that would be lifted could work? It would probably require 2 people to raise the door though.
At the lagoon itself if we decide to make boats(which will come in handy I'm sure) than we should try to build another gate in the water, just something simple, one part is submerged to block out bottom feeders and the top part is raised to keep out surface swimmers. When we want to take out a boat we drop the top part of the gate, then hoist it back up when the boat is gone/back.
We should be careful around the river, if its only a moderate sized one than we don't have to worry about large water predators but we may need to worry about parasites and small poisonous creatures.

I can't think of anything we would use the granite for except building some nice houses. We should work on that after all our basic needs are squared away.

The volcano may be useful for acquiring better building materials, active volcano's often spit up ores like iron and nickle. They also produce obsidian(if the volcano has a high silicate concentration) which, when fractured, has an edge that cuts on a molecular level. Obsidian is extremely useful for medical equipment, causing less scar tissue and allowing faster recovery than steel scalpels. They could also be used for simple cutlery, or even blade edge weapons. Better, sharper equipment, but at the cost of being of high maintenance. I volunteer to take a scouting party to the volcano when my other defense based duties are done.
If I could get some help in the workshop we could make simple spears or machetes from scrap metal lying around the ship.
A little solar powered vehicle would also aid us quite well in our adventures.

We need to be careful too, if the animals are anything like the ones on Earth than that means the big stuff probably hibernates, if its early summer than we should start to see them coming out again soon, and they'll be hungry.
I have other ideas for defenses but this should suffice for now, if anyone has any suggestions, comments or concerns than I'll be happy to take them.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-10-2011, 02:44 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
(13-10-2011 12:33 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  We need to be careful too, if the animals are anything like the ones on Earth than that means the big stuff probably hibernates, if its early summer than we should start to see them coming out again soon, and they'll be hungry.
I have other ideas for defenses but this should suffice for now, if anyone has any suggestions, comments or concerns than I'll be happy to take them.

Thanks for defending us or maybe teaching us how to do so.

I just wonder though. Are we expecting something terrible and offensive out there before we know if that is a problem? Sure preparedness if good but I wonder if expecting horrific enemies and building defenses of magnitude could also be preparing ourselves to be offensive and catering to our tendency to war against what may have never known war. I would think preparing ourself with knowledge of our surroundings and our co-inhabitants first, and having a certain amount of vulnerability in that regard, would be more productive in the long run.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes defacto7's post
15-10-2011, 05:53 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
bump?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 08:58 AM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
Gone feral.
Found nice reed for musical instrument.
Some of you might like to go walkabout (alone and unarmed!) to attend a course on edible flowers and orienteering.
Meanwhile, if any of your children get lost in the woods, i'll return them unharmed. Hunters and warriors are on their own.
Feel free to make up stories about me.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 03:04 PM
 
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
(15-10-2011 08:58 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Gone feral.
Found nice reed for musical instrument.
Some of you might like to go walkabout (alone and unarmed!) to attend a course on edible flowers and orienteering.
Meanwhile, if any of your children get lost in the woods, i'll return them unharmed. Hunters and warriors are on their own.
Feel free to make up stories about me.

Looks like we lost one of us.

Not much chance of starting in a fundamentally new direction, is there?

I didn't quite hope so, but it was fun exploring new possibilities for a while, wasn't it?

Maybe it was the issue over our relationship with other species that turned most people off?

Yet, exploiting them is more of a habit than a necessity.

With our science and technology we are not that far off from being able to synthesize food and then we could stop the horror of factory farms, fisheries, chicken factories and abattoirs. Most people do not want to think about that, pretending food comes from the supermarket.

When we became vegetarians and started looking for alternatives, I was surprised how many meat-substitute products are already available on the market and how good they are.

Here is a partial list for those of you interested:

Yves slices: salami, turkey, bologna, ham, bacon – $2.50 – 3.50 for a 155 gm package. President’s Choice cold cuts, similar.
Yves ground round (like fine-ground beef, seasoned 3 possible ways) $4+ for 350(?) gm
Yves hot dogs $4+ pk of 8? 350?gm
Yves sausage $4-5 pk of 4, 350?gm
Yves chicken or beef tenders (small solid pieces for stir-fry) $4.50 – $5+ less than 200 gm
?brand chicken cutlets (flat breaded patties) $4-6 pk of 4, 350? gm
PC blue menu breaded chicken-like strips $ 9 pk of 36 900 gm
Yves veggie burgers $4-5 pack of 4 patties ?? 350 gm
President’s choice burgers $6–7 pk of 4 large patties, ? 650gm
M&M burgers $7-8 pk of 4, ?600gm
Licks Nature burgers $7-8 pk of 4 /600 gm
tofu $2-3.50 extra firm bar 454 gm; $1 – 2.50 container of soft, 350 – 500 gm different brands
seitan – health food stores only.

Now, if only we could synthesize steaks, most people would be happy, I am sure.

I still think I could live with individual domestication and individual hunting for individual consumption but, if the community opts for animal exploitation as business, I will go in search of Peterkin to learn about edible flowers.
Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 03:13 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
I'm sorry, Zatamon.
Just can't see myself living in a fortified cage.
Can't cope with cages of any kind.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 03:48 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
I think we all live in cages, with some of us its just harder to see where the bars are.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 04:52 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
But it is a "Brave New World" Where have I heard that title before?

You are right, Under... but this is supposed to be the restart button I would hope.

I would do anything to get it started all over again. Synthesize... no prob, eat leaves and grass, no prob. No roads, no cars, not a single luxury... like Robinson Caruso... as primitive as can be. I have no problem with that... Just not the same old....

shit....

it's just a thread... Sad

..I am really sad... it will not change... we couldn't possibly make it work. Humans are not capable. I think hope for mankind is very limited. It was a nice dream though.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2011, 05:39 PM
RE: Spaceship "TTA"
It may work well for the first survivors but the next generation? no I think eventually someone with "grand plans" will step up and unite us on the same self-destructive path.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: