Spanking kids
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24-06-2011, 09:54 AM
RE: Spanking kids
I think I've been very lucky with my kids then, since I've never had to slap them? No, I think they are pretty average, and I am by no means a superparent. I do know the feeling of desperation when being depraved of sleep for months and having kids that are unable to be reasoned with due to age/language or whatever. I read somewhere that the firstborns have the "pleasure" of transforming humans into parents, so some testing and failing is unavoidable.

When my kids were very small, I kept them away from dangerous situations, but when they became a little older (2-3 years) and they for instance were too interested in the burning candles, I let them touch it and feel the heat. Of course I was always around so no real danger occurred. The gravest situation we've been involved with must have been when my son was about 8. He and a friend decided it was a good idea to steal an iPod from a neighbour kid. Afterwards they felt so bad about it, that they smashed the thing... oh, very smart... Well, we, the parents of both boys had a long and serious talk with them and ruled that the punishment was to use their piggybank savings and savings in the bank to buy a new iPod, and they had to use future savings (money from birthday gifts etc) to make downpayments to us parents, of course we bought a new one for the kid right away. In addition, their computers (which they both just LOVE!) were taken away for a period of time, and they had to make a serious apology to the kid in public at school. (Some time later my son himself had a toy stolen, and then he said that he understood how bad it must have felt like for the iPod-kid.) I think this kind of punishment worked so much better than if I should have smacked him around. My son is now 11 and he is a kind kid who defintately knows right from wrong and mine from yours.

I think I wouldn't be able to hit or slap my kids or any other person anyway, other than in self defence. And I don't want my kids to be afraid of ME, I want them to think before they act, to increase their ability to analyze future consequences. I see my parenting job as to do my best in developing the kids into highly functioning and thinking adults, and I am 100% sure that being physically corrected is not helping. I think the arguments FOR slapping kids are kind of like the religious views that there is no morality without god - if we don't make kids fear the physical consequences, do they not develop a conciousness of their own? Conciuosness is what makes us behave good when nobody is watching, and that demands an ability to think for yourself, not just to fear pain and humiliation.

And it may also be a culture thingy? Here in Norway it is forbidden to slap kids, and I do not know of anyone who does it. When it happens, it makes headlines - which it did recently - it was done by some fundamentalist christian sect. *sigh*

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24-06-2011, 11:09 AM
RE: Spanking kids
@ Buddy Christ

Hey BC, you confuse me a bit...
On one side you condemn a religion subscribing a god who rules his subjects with fear

On the other side you think it's okay to raise a kid that way.

This confuses me. Am I misunderstanding you?

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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24-06-2011, 01:40 PM
RE: Spanking kids
(24-06-2011 11:09 AM)The_observer Wrote:  @ Buddy Christ

Hey BC, you confuse me a bit...
On one side you condemn a religion subscribing a god who rules his subjects with fear

On the other side you think it's okay to raise a kid that way.

This confuses me. Am I misunderstanding you?

It's not about fear. It's about respect. Like families where the kids may argue with mom, but once dad says it, it gets done. Like the relationship the dad has with the son in 300.






You can physically discipline your child and still have a loving relationship. It sounds cliche and sexist, but the father has to teach his child about the "manly" qualities of life; honor, respect, duty. I prefer the fathers of old where they tell their kids to do something and there is no complaining. Nowadays, dad Brent will sit down during a commercial break of Desperate Housewives with son Blaine and attempt to connect with him as a friend rather than teach him like a father. Then the parents end up crying on Montel Williams because their "kids are out of control and there's nothing they can do about it."

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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24-06-2011, 05:03 PM
RE: Spanking kids
Observer and Secular,

I think you both missed or misunderstood the part of my post where I said, "She has chores that she's expected to do because we all contribute, but also has the option of doing extra chores for money. I don't believe in allowance. You want money, earn it like the rest of us".

Before she gets to do chores for money, she has to do her share of the regular daily upkeep of our home. That is stuff she must do, and recieves no reward other than the sense of acomplishment and contributing. Allowance given to kids for simply "doing their share" is like saying, "You deserve to get paid to clean the bathroom, even though I don't". The world just doesn't spin that way.


Plus, if she doesn't want to do a chore that's for money, she doesn't have to, but that doesn't teach her not to do anything without a reward. If something MUST be done, then she does it, and there is no monetary reward. Finishing her regular chores only earns her the opportunity to do extra if she wants a few bucks for the weekend. (Not to mention the kid has a fatter bank account than I do. Trust me, she knows how to manage money already)

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24-06-2011, 07:07 PM
RE: Spanking kids
I don't want to step on anyone's toes or anything so let's not get crazy in here.

However, I was hit as a kid, quite often. I didn't think much about it then, other than I thought it odd none of my friends got hit. Later on in life I did end up becoming quite violent, I spent years 11 through 20ish, without many days going by where I hadn't gotten into a serious fight. I don't chalk that up to getting hit by my parental figure alone, I had issues much deeper than that, but I'm sure it didn't help when it came time for me to discern proper behavior from inappropriate.

That's part of why I don't think even spankings are really ok, not that I think they will ruin a kid or anything, I just think it becomes harder for a child to see the clear line when everything at home is so blurry. Home is where children should feel the safest. Funny thing is, I think having a kid has had a major hand in mellowing me out to the extent that I am now. Not that I was still crazy when I had her or anything, but I did learn a lot about patience.

Anyways I don't mean to be saying that my view is any more right than anyone elses, That would be insane and totally against what I believe. Besides it's not any of our places to judge, that job is left to our wonderful God... The Great Spaghetti Monster.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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24-06-2011, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2011 08:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spanking kids
(23-06-2011 09:12 AM)Cubic Bubbles Wrote:  I wonder if there are many atheists spanking their kids.

Never raised a hand to any of my 4 children. But I was always more concerned with the harm it might do me than them. I've always been a selfish bastard.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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25-06-2011, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2011 01:45 PM by Observer.)
RE: Spanking kids
(24-06-2011 05:03 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I think you both missed or misunderstood the part of my post where I said, "She has chores that she's expected to do because we all contribute, but also has the option of doing extra chores for money.
Yes I did kind of missed that. Blush

I see...
Interesting. I'll think about that for a while...

@ Buddy Christ

I understand you better now. I'm also understanding on where our viewpoints differ.
Ive never respected my dad because he had power or physical strength, although he had, I respected him because he had vision and knew what life was all about.

Later, in my adult life, I only got respect for people who where able to show their vision to me. Not because they where powerful. Even if I did not entierly agree with their vision.

You know, Maybe my disbelieve in God is greatly amplified from the lack of clear vision He displays.

Note:
I'm not entirely sure if "vision" is the correct English translation for the dutch word "visie".

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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25-06-2011, 01:49 PM
RE: Spanking kids
I believe you can teach your children "manly" qualities without beatings/spankings.

Being honorable is about doing what's right and keeping your principles, regardless of the difficulties. I don't see how you can beat honor into your children.

Respect- I see that respect is a learned behavior, if you respect people around you, and your children, they will pick up on it and use it as well. People loose tempers and make mistakes, and for that you talk to them about it, and discipline them.

Duty is doing your job to the best of your abilities - Again, something I see that is learned from observation. Work with your children, volunteer together, let them see you doing icky chores, and explain it to them. Sometimes we get lazy, but talk to them about why it is important for everyone to do their bit.

Also, I don't see how any of this is "manly"... I believe everyone should be honorable, respectful and duty bound.

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25-06-2011, 06:22 PM
RE: Spanking kids
(24-06-2011 05:03 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Observer and Secular,

I think you both missed or misunderstood the part of my post where I said, "She has chores that she's expected to do because we all contribute, but also has the option of doing extra chores for money. I don't believe in allowance. You want money, earn it like the rest of us".

Ahh, yes, I must have misread that or missed it. That makes a lot more sense Tongue

My parents would also give us a bit of extra allowance if we helped out with big stuff, like weekend-long projects, landscaping, or such. Seems like your parenting style is pretty similar to my parents, and if it is, then you can count your daughter a lucky girl, 'cause I always feel fortunate to have had the kind of parents that I have.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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27-06-2011, 11:05 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(24-06-2011 01:40 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  It's not about fear. It's about respect.
I am curious to know if you think husbands should hit their wives to "get their respect"?

Quote:It sounds cliche and sexist, but the father has to teach his child about the "manly" qualities of life; honor, respect, duty.

How is hitting your child teaching him honor? And as for respect, respect is earned, not beaten into the other person. The kid may do what you say out of fear of the punishment, not because he respects you as an authority figure.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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