Spanking kids
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27-06-2011, 11:23 AM
RE: Spanking kids
I agree that hitting a child creates fear which results in obedience, which is very different than respect, which results in a child who considers their actions in terms of right and wrong. The simple dicotomy of right and wrong is imperative to teach young children, and that must then be developed so as to teach that it is not, in fact, a dicotomy at all. By creating fear, it teaches the child that doing something "wrong" results in punishment, and doing something "right" avoids it. How then, do you develop that child into a free thinking person? I think Buddy Christ is a free thinking person who overcame the odds. Teaching a better way betters those odds, which is why I teach my kids respect instead of fear.

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29-06-2011, 09:59 PM
 
RE: Spanking kids
I think it really matters on the child's personality, if there more submissive then they will listen more. It may take more force than others, (not to make force a harsh word here) I think parents need to see what is best, if yelling doesnt work (did for me! Tongue)
then maybe you might have to try spanking, if that doesnt work, well your out of luck and they have a None-submissive personality, cant change that. What happens is that parents use more physical force then ever needed, you will never change there none submissive personality, you will only end up hurting them physically and emotionally.

Time-outs are a joke, they rarely work on kids.

But there is a building of authority too, if you spank your kids then they will more than likely be more submissive when you yell at them or tell them what to do. But over-spanking isnt good, I had that as a kid and I was afraid of my dad. But thats because almost anything "bad" I was spanked for.

You just really have to know what type of personality they have, but kids, no matter what are going to do some "bad" things. punishing them harshly for everything doesnt work, and never punishing them doesnt work either.

And really if you give your kids freedom they are not going to really do "bad" things. aslong as there not out to get you ;P. Let em do what they want aslong as its not too bad. Overprotective parents these days are like religious people. And really, the greatest punishment that a person can learn is from self-knowledge. Without that, you will never truly learn.

Me, im too nice of a guy to ever spank my children Tongue. Its quite impossible for people to make me mad unless there being stupid.
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30-06-2011, 11:01 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(29-06-2011 09:59 PM)Arkamond Wrote:  But there is a building of authority too, if you spank your kids then they will more than likely be more submissive when you yell at them or tell them what to do.

Really? I distinctly remember watching some parents spank a kid for doing something, and like 10 seconds later the kid did it right back again, got spanked again, and another few seconds later did the same thing again. It turned into a completely grotesque scene where it was frigging obvious to everybody that the spanking was NOT WORKING but the parent just had to keep doing it so as not to lose his/her face. I know I didn't get more "submissive" because I got spanked, I simply hated my parents, and did do plenty of the things they didn't want me to do, behind their backs, and then gloated at not getting caught. I am sorry to all the spanking supporters out there, spanking doesn't teach anything to your kids, it just makes YOU feel better. Give it up already, and learn better parenting skills in which you teach kids not to do something because it's WRONG not because they get hit if they do it. The lesson is much more valuable that way, and will stay with them also when they grow up and there's nobody to spank them when they do something wrong.

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30-06-2011, 12:53 PM
RE: Spanking kids
Spanking definitely DOES teach kids something. It teaches them to hide their mistakes instead of talk about them. I don't mean to bash you Arkamond, my intent is to discuss this, but submissive children are fearful, not thoughtful. I don't want my kids to submit, I want them to THINK.

This whole submission thing is akin to training an animal. A submissive animal is taught to do what it thinks will please you, without regard for it's own intentions. It becomes instinctive to do what it's master wants. The difference is that an animal will spend it's entire life with you, on a very basic level, serving you. On the other hand, a child is with you for the beginning of their life, and then sent out to be independant. If you teach that child to submit to you, then they will be lost when they need to think for themselves instead of thinking what will best put them in your good graces.

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30-06-2011, 02:27 PM
RE: Spanking kids
I have 2 kids, ages 8 and 10 and I've never put a hand on either of them. Both are well behaved and listen reasonably well. They are school age boys with their own mind, opinions and personalities and therefore don't always do what I want and when I want it but, overall, they are both great kids and I've little to complain about with them. What is most important, though, is that they are respectful to elders, family, their parents, their teachers, etc. And, when they cross a line, I am able to put fear into them without ever raising my hands to them. I never have, and I never will.

My own opinion is that the lesson kids learn when they are spanked is that hitting is an ok to enforce a point of view. That is not the lesson I want my kids to learn. I'm not above threats, though. I'm not talking threats of violence but threats of revocation of privileges, video games, etc. That usually works. I'm a believer in economic theory and the idea of incentives. But, I think any level of violence simply sends the wrong message.

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30-06-2011, 03:15 PM
 
RE: Spanking kids
I think the using of the word "submit" had too much of an affect Undecided
Are you either going to accept that punishment and learn from it or are you going to storm out with your head in the clouds? Thats all i'm trying to say.
I think what people would want in place more would be in a sense "respect".

But think back to your childhood, when you got in trouble for something and one of your parents spanked you did you either submit to that spanking and say "I did something wrong" and then think about what you did wrong or did you just fly out with your head in the clouds thinking your better than your parents? You can respect your parents but you are submitting to their punishing of you if your accepting it.

@sy2502, im not trying to say that spanking will always work, it depends on personality and respect. If a kid is obviously not learning from the form of punishment, maybe the parents need to get down to the root of the problem. But this sometimes is solved with age or just a fixing of what the reason of why they do not listen is. Most kids do go through a stage of not respecting you multiple times in their childhood naturally

I'm deffinetely not endorsing abusement, if spanking doesnt work, whips and paddles wont either. But the outcome of certain types of punishment is never really predictable, its based upon a lot of things including personality.
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30-06-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: Spanking kids
I definitely agree with the poster who said they teach their kids by confronting them with the consequences of their actions. I remember a friend of mine saying that one day one of her kids was at the kitchen table drawing with a marker and she told him to make sure he drew on the paper, not on the table, which he didn't do. So she took out the bottle of cleaner and a rug and told him to clean it up. It took him hours to get it all, and she said she felt like a slave driver, but I think that's the very best way of teaching a kid. Why shouldn't he draw with the marker on the table? Because it's really hard to clean it up afterwards. I am pretty sure he got the message by experiencing first hand how hard it actually is.

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01-07-2011, 04:15 AM
RE: Spanking kids
OK, I will, as usual, just give you some examples, you decide of the purpose... You never spank your kid, but you do tell him/her that you will in rare occasions when they behave "extra bad". So you told your kid hundred times to look both sides of the road before crossing and one day you see your kid just plain stupid running in front of a car and a car breaks violently, stops in front of your kid. Now that is a life threatening situation, you have talked about that with your kid, and this is not the first time he/she did the exact same thing, one time it was because of the dog, other time for the ball, this time it was something else. Since you never spanked your kid, only talked to him about the punishment of that kind, do you think it is the appropriate time to make him/her now finally remember your words, or will you try to explain to him/her with confronting the consequences? That would mean to throw your kid under a car and then talk to the kid while laying in the hospital, if you all are that lucky.

So you see, it is not that simple as you all make it to be. Sometimes a kid needs to remember something for the rest of his/hers life, or it may cost him/her that same life. And nobody never forgets a good old spanking, and if they are wrong, they know they deserved it. But if you use that punishment regularly, it looses the purpose, so you get the example like sy2502 wrote couple of post up. It should be used only in rare occasions, and that is what makes a good parent, when they know how and when to punish or reward their kids and what kind of punishment or reward should they use.

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01-07-2011, 05:36 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(01-07-2011 04:15 AM)Filox Wrote:  OK, I will, as usual, just give you some examples, you decide of the purpose... You never spank your kid, but you do tell him/her that you will in rare occasions when they behave "extra bad". So you told your kid hundred times to look both sides of the road before crossing and one day you see your kid just plain stupid running in front of a car and a car breaks violently, stops in front of your kid. Now that is a life threatening situation, you have talked about that with your kid, and this is not the first time he/she did the exact same thing, one time it was because of the dog, other time for the ball, this time it was something else. Since you never spanked your kid, only talked to him about the punishment of that kind, do you think it is the appropriate time to make him/her now finally remember your words, or will you try to explain to him/her with confronting the consequences? That would mean to throw your kid under a car and then talk to the kid while laying in the hospital, if you all are that lucky.

So you see, it is not that simple as you all make it to be. Sometimes a kid needs to remember something for the rest of his/hers life, or it may cost him/her that same life. And nobody never forgets a good old spanking, and if they are wrong, they know they deserved it. But if you use that punishment regularly, it looses the purpose, so you get the example like sy2502 wrote couple of post up. It should be used only in rare occasions, and that is what makes a good parent, when they know how and when to punish or reward their kids and what kind of punishment or reward should they use.

That's a joke, right?

And, if it's not, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't have kids.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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01-07-2011, 10:43 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(01-07-2011 04:15 AM)Filox Wrote:  That would mean to throw your kid under a car and then talk to the kid while laying in the hospital, if you all are that lucky.

Quote:So you see, it is not that simple as you all make it to be. Sometimes a kid needs to remember something for the rest of his/hers life, or it may cost him/her that same life. And nobody never forgets a good old spanking
So the only ways to impress something on a kid are
1) Throw him under a car
2) Give him the beating of his life

If these are the only tools in your parenting arsenal, I can only shake my head and hope you never have children.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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