Spanking kids
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01-07-2011, 11:22 AM
RE: Spanking kids
Electric fences =p I love it when parents use the animal solution for their kids because they have trouble finding better ones. Ah to grow up thinking you actually can't leave the house because there's some sort of invisible wall that only your parents can turn off. That is definitely going to be one interesting adult =p

Seriously though if you explain it these kinds of options can help a bit. Some parents just can't manage the more time consuming and involved answers, it's not that they shouldn't have kids it's just that sometimes having kids keeps you too busy to be with them.

It's important to remember why a lot of us like the child raising revolutions. The tried and true has noticeable results we've seen what comes from traditional child rearing and that is people steeped in tradition often not the best tradition. Changing the formula is a good way to help your kid be more capable of embracing the future.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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01-07-2011, 03:09 PM
RE: Spanking kids
(01-07-2011 04:15 AM)Filox Wrote:  OK, I will, as usual, just give you some examples, you decide of the purpose... You never spank your kid, but you do tell him/her that you will in rare occasions when they behave "extra bad". So you told your kid hundred times to look both sides of the road before crossing and one day you see your kid just plain stupid running in front of a car and a car breaks violently, stops in front of your kid. Now that is a life threatening situation, you have talked about that with your kid, and this is not the first time he/she did the exact same thing, one time it was because of the dog, other time for the ball, this time it was something else. Since you never spanked your kid, only talked to him about the punishment of that kind, do you think it is the appropriate time to make him/her now finally remember your words, or will you try to explain to him/her with confronting the consequences? That would mean to throw your kid under a car and then talk to the kid while laying in the hospital, if you all are that lucky.

So you see, it is not that simple as you all make it to be. Sometimes a kid needs to remember something for the rest of his/hers life, or it may cost him/her that same life. And nobody never forgets a good old spanking, and if they are wrong, they know they deserved it. But if you use that punishment regularly, it looses the purpose, so you get the example like sy2502 wrote couple of post up. It should be used only in rare occasions, and that is what makes a good parent, when they know how and when to punish or reward their kids and what kind of punishment or reward should they use.

Filox, sorry to say, but... not your brightest moment man!

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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02-07-2011, 09:12 AM
RE: Spanking kids
I'm just in to say thanks for all your replies. It's really interesting to observe that our somewhat agreement on atheism doesn't make us instantly agree on how to live our lives and raise our kids.

"Never underestimate how narrow-minded, petty and stupid people can be". Mark Fulton, forum member
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04-07-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: Spanking kids
So far, the posters on this thread are trying to make "spanking" synonymous with "beating." 3 spanks on a bottom equating to a wrench repeatedly to the face. But are you all saying you are 100% non-physical with your children? You've never slapped a hand that was too close to the pot of boiling water? You've never picked them up roughly and taken them to their room after they threw a toy at your new flat screen tv for the third straight time? Or when they refuse to sit in the time-out chair, do you just keep playing their game where you have to pick them up and put them back on the chair over and over, essentially becoming a child yourself? This is a purely "look them in the eyes and have a calm discussion with them" crowd?

I just refuse to believe that "physical ramification as a form of punishment" instantly creates wife-beaters and criminals. Spanking (and worse) was a very popular discipline technique back in the day and our parent's generation turned out relatively normal. Our generation has embraced the pussification of children. Now little Timmy isn't allowed to play with anything remotely dangerous like Legos or Playdoh (choking hazard!!) and he wears a helmet to school, lest a hair on his precious head is hurt.

I don't have kids, but my mom was a babysitter, so i grew up surrounded by 10 or so kids and was forced to help out. If I have kids, I would like my child to think of me as the "father who loves them and would do anything for them, but don't make him mad because dad's a little crazy" type.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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04-07-2011, 07:59 PM
RE: Spanking kids
Sorry BC but I do think that any hitting of a child is a form of physical abuse. Personal opinion is all. I have never hit my kid in any way and i remain to keep it that way.
I also don't think that our ancestors turned out all that well maybe just a little better than the one before that. But again it might just be me.
I like the pictures for a laugh at religion thread better it's more fun.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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04-07-2011, 09:29 PM
RE: Spanking kids
For the record, in my first post, I said that I had twice spanked my kid. The reason was that it was a rare circumstance in which I intentionally wanted to cause fear, as the lesser of two evils. (The other being that she could possibly maim of kill herself) I think that hitting in any way does create fear, and that's just not a barrier I want between me and my kid.

Having said all that, I think BC makes a very good point about raising a generation of pussies. I didn't even own a bike helmet until I had to get one as an adult. I was sent outside to play, and came home when the street lights turned on. I made mistakes, and when I did, I learned from them. I am trying to do the same with my kid. She has freedom, and when she shows she can handle it, she gets more. I let her make mistakes. If she doesn't, she'll go out into the world and wonder who is supposed to look after her, instead of looking after herself.

It's a tough topic to say the least, but a good one to discuss.

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05-07-2011, 01:06 AM
RE: Spanking kids
Maddox wrote an article about this subject a few years ago. Ok, it's satire, but I tought i should post it here. you can even get t-shirts with the drawing below.

[Image: beatkid4.jpg]

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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05-07-2011, 11:01 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2011 11:27 AM by sy2502.)
RE: Spanking kids
(04-07-2011 07:36 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So far, the posters on this thread are trying to make "spanking" synonymous with "beating." 3 spanks on a bottom equating to a wrench repeatedly to the face. But are you all saying you are 100% non-physical with your children? You've never slapped a hand that was too close to the pot of boiling water? You've never picked them up roughly and taken them to their room after they threw a toy at your new flat screen tv for the third straight time? Or when they refuse to sit in the time-out chair, do you just keep playing their game where you have to pick them up and put them back on the chair over and over, essentially becoming a child yourself? This is a purely "look them in the eyes and have a calm discussion with them" crowd?

I just refuse to believe that "physical ramification as a form of punishment" instantly creates wife-beaters and criminals. Spanking (and worse) was a very popular discipline technique back in the day and our parent's generation turned out relatively normal. Our generation has embraced the pussification of children. Now little Timmy isn't allowed to play with anything remotely dangerous like Legos or Playdoh (choking hazard!!) and he wears a helmet to school, lest a hair on his precious head is hurt.

I don't have kids, but my mom was a babysitter, so i grew up surrounded by 10 or so kids and was forced to help out. If I have kids, I would like my child to think of me as the "father who loves them and would do anything for them, but don't make him mad because dad's a little crazy" type.

Allow me a few comments on your post.
1) Of course a little slap on the wrist isn't the same of a punch in the face. But I can tell you from personal experience that parents who do punch their kids in the face don't understand what the fuss is about. In their minds THEY ARE NOT BEING ABUSIVE. They don't think what they do is over the top, they think they are doing their kids a favor. So if all we could ever count on was a little slap on the wrist, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But we can't. Because there are plenty of abusive parents out there. Because nobody is keeping them in check. Because it is human nature to prevaricate over the weaker ESPECIALLY when we can get away with it.

2) Take all the things you mentioned are perfectly fine if done to a kid and think in your mind of doing them to an adult. I don't know if you are male of female, I'll assume for the sake of the discussion that you are male. Do you shove and push your wife away if she doesn't move when you tell her to? Do you grab her roughly by the wrist and pull her out of a room if she says something you don't like? Do you slap her when she doesn't do what you say? No? Why not? How about your colleagues? Is that how you treat them when they don't do what you like? Why not? How about the clerk at the store, do you reach over and slap them if they don't ring your stuff quick enough or make a mistake? Why not? Once you really think about it, you should quickly realize that you are making what's called "special pleading" in the case of your kid. You are saying it's fine to do to your kid something you wouldn't do to anybody else.

3) Let's look around and really see how wonderful the past generation, the "spanked generation", is. We have 2 world wars, the Cold War, the Vietnam War, 2 Gulf Wars and Afganistan just to name a few. We have had a Depression and a recession. The Baby Boomers went from being stoned our of their heads with pot and LSD, and screwing everything on sight in the 60s to being stoned out of their heads with Vicodin and Oxycontin, and being the largest consumers of Viagra. They also carry horrific credit card debt and most of them haven't saved hardly anything for their retirement while their garages are so full of junk they bought when they didn't need it that they can't park their car in it. In one word, this generation of spanked kids has been probably more violent and greedy and superficial than any of the preceding ones. Hardly entitled to patronize the newer generations and call them "pussies".

4) The reason kids today are vapid and self entitled and spoiled has nothing to do with beatings, and all to do with their parents being themselves vapid, self entitled and spolied. It's about bad parenting, not lack of beatings. Parents who park their kids in front of the TV so they can go to Wal Mart to buy more crap they don't need, or watch the TiVo recording of "So you think you can dance" or spend hours on Facebook can hardly expect model children. Add to that the notion that children today are told they are oh so amazing, oh so special, oh so smart, that they can do nothing wrong, blah blah blah, and there you have it. What does spanking have to do with anything?

I'll add to the "pussy kids" the fact that parents today simply don't want to be the "bad guy" any more. They want to be their kids' friends. So because they can't say "no" to their kids any more, they expect society to say "no" for them. But when society has to legislate things that should be part of good parenting and don't belong in the laws, what comes out are all these neurotic, unreasonable, laughable rules and regulations we see crop up everywhere.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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05-07-2011, 11:42 AM
RE: Spanking kids
Any child I help raise won't be in this pussy generation there are all sorts of experiences out there. I'm not going to hide them away. Whether I hit them or not has nothing to do with if they are going to make mistakes and get hurt. I expect kids to get hurt, dirty, and occasionally cost a fortune. I feel George Carlin was perfectly right in the cure for polio "swimming in raw sewage".

And to be more on your side BC I agree with my mom, if your kid is a biter bite them back. You can't have them going around biting classmates when they go to school. I'm not going to raise a kid that shrinks back when my hand raises though.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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05-07-2011, 02:22 PM
RE: Spanking kids
As far as the generation born after... the 1990's (is that what we are talking about?)

You know why they are lazy, vapid, and self serving, because they are god damned teenagers, pick any teenager from any generation and you will pretty much get the same results.

I've seen some good things already come out of that/my generation, such as a HUGE explosion in art and self expression, although the "it's okay to be different hipster" is annoying at times, it's actually quite refreshing. This generation is also the truly global generation, with more access to languages and international travel, more and more young people are going to see the world and expand their minds. This generation is also paving ahead in social equality, slowly but surely as our generation, and future generations age and get jobs we see gender issues and race issues evaporating.

Sure there is problems, especially with entitlement and a 'give it to me now' type atmosphere, but in the end I'm really interested to see what the world will be like in 20 years.

Also, consider this, more and more young people are agnostic and atheist. Smile

[Image: 1471821-futurama_bender_s_big_score_imag...er-1-1.jpg]
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