Spanking kids
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07-07-2011, 07:51 PM
RE: Spanking kids
I never raised a hand to any of my 4 now adult children regardless of their behavior. I was always more worried about what resorting to physical correction might do to me than them. What if I liked it? Isolation, i.e. "timeouts" work. Humans are a social species. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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07-07-2011, 08:44 PM
 
RE: Spanking kids
(07-07-2011 08:39 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  BC, I want to ask a quick question to clarify your position. Do you think spanking should be an just option for parents if they choose to use it, or something that should be endorsed for all parents(or at least those with unruly children) to ensure a generation that has a spine and are not wussies?

(07-07-2011 07:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I never raised a hand to any of my 4 now adult children regardless of their behavior. I was always more worried about what resorting to physical correction might do to me than them. What if I liked it? Isolation, i.e. "timeouts" work. Humans are a social species. Wink

Not having kids works also. Tongue
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07-07-2011, 08:52 PM
RE: Spanking kids
(07-07-2011 08:44 PM)Maskelyne Wrote:  
(07-07-2011 08:39 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  BC, I want to ask a quick question to clarify your position. Do you think spanking should be an just option for parents if they choose to use it, or something that should be endorsed for all parents(or at least those with unruly children) to ensure a generation that has a spine and are not wussies?

(07-07-2011 07:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I never raised a hand to any of my 4 now adult children regardless of their behavior. I was always more worried about what resorting to physical correction might do to me than them. What if I liked it? Isolation, i.e. "timeouts" work. Humans are a social species. Wink

Not having kids works also. Tongue

That's certainly a reasonable strategy with it's own costs and benefits.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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07-07-2011, 11:09 PM
RE: Spanking kids
(07-07-2011 07:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I never raised a hand to any of my 4 now adult children regardless of their behavior. I was always more worried about what resorting to physical correction might do to me than them. What if I liked it? Isolation, i.e. "timeouts" work. Humans are a social species. Wink

What if you isolate your child so much, they develop a permanent need for attention, becoming a socialite attention whore? This thread is helping me realize that too much of any certain type of punishment can lead to emotional neglect leading to problems. Yell at your child all day and you'll mess them up psychologically. Hit them all the time and they may become accustomed to violence. Put them in time out all day and they will crave attention. Moderation is the name of the game.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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08-07-2011, 03:42 AM
RE: Spanking kids
Finally someone has came to the same conclusion as I did 100 post ago...

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08-07-2011, 06:59 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(07-07-2011 11:09 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(07-07-2011 07:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I never raised a hand to any of my 4 now adult children regardless of their behavior. I was always more worried about what resorting to physical correction might do to me than them. What if I liked it? Isolation, i.e. "timeouts" work. Humans are a social species. Wink

What if you isolate your child so much, they develop a permanent need for attention, becoming a socialite attention whore? This thread is helping me realize that too much of any certain type of punishment can lead to emotional neglect leading to problems. Yell at your child all day and you'll mess them up psychologically. Hit them all the time and they may become accustomed to violence. Put them in time out all day and they will crave attention. Moderation is the name of the game.

I think you are spot on that abuse can be mental as well as physical, and mental abuse isn't any better or less damaging. My youngest claims mental abuse all the time. He doesn't listen, he gets yelled out and/or punished, and he claims it's because I don't like him and tries to put it all back on me.

Only 8 year's old and already he's a better lawyer than his dad. I'm so proud.

ok, and seriously: when do we get on to the adult spanking page? Do you prefer to be the spanker or the spankee? Black leather or no leather?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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08-07-2011, 08:32 AM
RE: Spanking kids
Lets be clear. Any form of punishment used to excess can become abusive. Whether it's spanking, yelling, time-outs, or "consequence" punishments. As a parent, it lies on us to find a balance so that our kids learn, but are not abused. It's my opinion that using physical punishments (ie. spanking or hitting) walks too fine a line for anyone to be able to walk. Could a balance of spanking be reached where the child is taught, but not abused? Possibly. Is it worth it when other methods can be employed with far less risk? In my opinion, absolutely not.

I can't jump on the "spanking-is-automatically-abuse" bandwagon, but at the same time, I can't justify spanking but in the rarest of occasions. There is probably always going to be a better way. Even on the two occasions in the past 14 years where I spanked my kid, I still acknowledge that there may have been a better way to deal with it. What I did worked, and didn't leave my kid traumatized, but it was walking that fine line, and I got lucky and stayed on the right side. I just don't want to count on luck when I'm raising my kid.

BnW > Bare hand is more "intimate", but when it's time to get down to it, I prefer a riding crop with an experienced partner who knows their limits and wants to push them, and a leather "fly swatter" style for a less experienced partner who is into the idea but not nescessarily the pain. (Was that WAY more information than you really wanted? LOL)

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08-07-2011, 09:41 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(08-07-2011 03:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Finally someone has came to the same conclusion as I did 100 post ago...

If we don't use the round-about method, then we don't learn anything.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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08-07-2011, 11:21 AM
RE: Spanking kids
(08-07-2011 08:32 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  BnW > Bare hand is more "intimate", but when it's time to get down to it, I prefer a riding crop with an experienced partner who knows their limits and wants to push them, and a leather "fly swatter" style for a less experienced partner who is into the idea but not nescessarily the pain. (Was that WAY more information than you really wanted? LOL)

Yes, that was WAY more information than I wanted. Way, way, WAY more. There are now several of you where I know far more about you then was ever necessary.

Anyway, my fault for bringing it up, I guess. Live and learn.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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08-07-2011, 01:36 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2011 02:08 PM by sy2502.)
RE: Spanking kids
(07-07-2011 03:10 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  At this point, you're not even listening to me. You're hearing whatever you want to hear. Shaping ≠ Slapping. And calm down with the exclamation points and caps lock, this isn't a Yahoo News comment section.
I see, so you have so badly run out of arguments that now you answer to how I write instead of to what I write! Give it up buddy, you don't have a leg to stand on.

Quote:A child is incapable of learning cause and effect and consequence? So you're telling me that a child who burns himself on a stove will continuously keep burning himself because he can't understand which actions result in punishment?
LOL do you have kids? Have you ever actually seen kids play? They will in fact keep on doing things that hurt them over and over. Until, that is, their brain has made the connection. Some connections of course are made earlier than others. The burning thing for example. Of course if you want your child to make a mental connection about you similar to "the burning thing" be my guest. Some parents do like the idea of their kids cringing around them.


Quote:
Quote:Oh wait, I thought it was YOUR argument that all young people who weren't spanked are pussies. Are you already backtracking on that? I am glad!

Swing and a miss, please reread and rethink.
At this point, I doubt even YOU know what you think.

Quote:I was pointing out that an entire generation of spanked children are virtually no different than this new "safety generation."
You said, and I quote: "Spanking (and worse) was a very popular discipline technique back in the day and our parent's generation turned out relatively normal. Our generation has embraced the pussification of children."
If this statement doesn't say that the earlier, spanked generation is better than the current, pussified generation, I don't know what does. Well, I have told you what the society produced by the spanked generations has been. Not pretty. I also showed you that what you call "pussies" seem to be much more tolerant of minorities and gays, and that they embrace women's equality much more readily. If you call that "pussification" then we certainly need more pussification in this world.


Quote:If spanking increases violent tendencies, we should expect to see a radical decline in crimes from then to now. The crime-to-spanking ratio would be declining in correlation.
That spanking creates more aggressive children has been established by enough studies. A quick Internet search will help you find them. Here's a little help for you:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/dis...id=2540224
"The findings were consistent with a socialization model in which higher levels of severity in parental punishment practices are associated with higher levels of children's subsequent aggression toward peers. Findings indicated that children who had been spanked evidenced levels of aggression that were higher than those who had not been spanked, and children who had been the objects of violent discipline became the most aggressive of all groups. Patterns were qualified by the sexes of the parent and child and subtypes of child aggression (reactive, bullying, and instrumental). The findings suggest that in spite of parents' goals, spanking fails to promote prosocial development and, instead, is associated with higher rates of aggression toward peers."

http://www.clickorlando.com/family/5330085/detail.html
"Children who are spanked are more likely to be anxious and aggressive than children who are disciplined in other ways, according to researchers in six countries."

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-16/healt...=PM:HEALTH
"Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3. The study is published in the journal Child Development."

I could go on, but something tells me you can use Internet yourself, and that when you say "There are no scientific studies that would suggest spanking leads to violence." what you really mean is "I want to believe there are no scientific studies that suggest spanking kids leads to violence".

Quote:Stop text-shouting, stop making things up, and approach this discussion with a level of maturity.
This is valid for you too, my friend. When the best you can do is say that the only way to shape a child's immature brain is to slap them, my response is going to go along the lines of "garbage in, garbage out". You have made many assertions about child educations that are not only baseless, but they are actively contradicted by studies. Now, my questions is: if several studies tell you that your slapping your child is detrimental, are you going to stop doing it?
Let me add another couple of things to the "wiring the brain through pain" issue.
We are actually lucky that children don't easily make that kind of connection early in life. Think of a child that is trying to learn to walk. Think of how many times they fall, how many times they bump their heads, etc. If they did make the connection "pain = I won't do it again" we'd never learn to walk. We'd try it once, fall, and never try again.
Now the other connection of burning stove = don't ever touch it again has been brought up. I'd like to point out that the pain of a burning stove is many times more intense than the purported non abusive little swat on the wrist. A burn is a painful and traumatic enough event to form a quick and lasting connection in the brain. If a parent wants to achieve similar results, he needs corporal punishment of similar traumatic intensity, which is ABUSIVE.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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