Speaking in tongues???
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27-12-2011, 02:02 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
(27-12-2011 12:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  There are two types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the Bible.

1) Speaking in a known language that is unknown to the speaker. No interpreter is needed. This would be like if I went to Japan and started talking English but everyone understood me in Japanese.

2) Speaking ecstatically (gibberish). This is commonly abused and identified as a prayer language. Be that as it may, it is not to be done in front of others without an interpreter (1 Cor. 14). If there is no interpreter, then it is not of God.

I have a problem with "speaking in tongues", because the idea is not very scientific. If we had an example of type #1, we could post him/her talking on YouTube and you'd suddenly have a scientific case of it that could be mass tested. It would be powerful evidence of God. However, nobody has come forward with the claim to do this, because it's incredibly easy to debunk if false.

In type #2, we could scientifically test this as well. You'd record 10 people or so "speaking in tongues", and give them to a good sample of interpreters to write down an interpretation. If they don't match better than chance (of course you'd have non-interpreters attempting this as well for a control), then there is either no such thing as tongues or interpreting tongues. While there are no shortage of believers that claim to speak in tongues, interpreters are scarce, because this is also possible to debunk as I've explained (an interpreter simply needs to interpret something as contrary to scripture to be found out). It's very hard to guess what God would say if He spoke, so I think if there are interpreters they simply stick to safe things like quoting scripture or generic positive statements (like those who talk to the dead when they repeatedly and predictably say that the dead person "wants you to know that he/she is in a safe place").

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27-12-2011, 04:43 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
I've mentioned here before that I was a very devout Christian, and was even a Pentecostal Christian who spoke in tongues. It's something I feel embarrassed about, something from my past that I feel like I should have been intelligent enough to walk away from. There are a lot of factors that contributed to how I came to be willing to accept it. Primarily it was what others here have mentioned already- peer pressure.

At the time of my life that I started doing this my parents had recently divorced, I had moved a couple of times and was in a place where I didn't have a lot of friends. I was a teenager and was in a emotionally and intellectually weak state of mind. One of my friends that I knew and trusted was going to a church that practiced this. I went to his youth group with him one night. I balked at it when I first saw it, and it made me really uncomfortable. But afterward I met all these other kids my age that were really cool. They were normal, listened to rock music (Christian rock of course) and dressed like me. Eventually after listening to the sermons and teachings and being around it for long enough it didn't seem so strange any more. Then you start to want to be one of the group, and I began to think I needed this in order to be closer to God. It's a long process of brainwashing that I'm ashamed to have been a victim of.

So what is it really when Christians do this as they pray? Babbling. It's not a very intellectually sound position to defend from. There are some vaguely supporting scriptures.

Feel free to ask questions, I'll try to be honest in answers about what I used to believe. But I think others have already covered the scriptural part of the answer. I wanted to offer up how someone can come to believe in it.
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27-12-2011, 05:02 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
@kineo: No need to be ashamed, bro. Be proud that you walked away from it. It's easy to take the bait from religion, especially when you're young and you're looking for a community to belong to. Walking away from it is difficult though. You need to swim against the flow and many times you lose a lot in the process. You earned your stripes by doing so.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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27-12-2011, 05:05 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
very interesting what a few vague interpretation of scripture, group reinforcement and peer pressure can do to otherwise mentally sound people.
I guess the same goes for all these faith healings where a preacher hits a guy on the head and he starts faking a ceasure (knowingly or not)
but really should when someone sees another person having a ceasure be genuinly concerned that hes having one? XD
ill be waiting for that news report someday that says "guy has ceasure witnessed by a whole church who did nothing because they thought it was the holy sperm..err ghost" XD

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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27-12-2011, 05:07 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
(27-12-2011 05:05 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  very interesting what a few vague interpretation of scripture

See, that's the thing... the scriptures aren't vague... not in the least. They are VERY blatant. I never heard a reasonable justification for senseless babbling that's done in Pentecostal churches. The Bible is CLEAR about it.

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27-12-2011, 05:10 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
And one more thing: again, I know all too well what peer pressure does to people and how much humanity, reason and dignity one needs to sacrifice to get in line with the religious dogma of his church, so please don't take my question the wrong way:

Were you aware that you were faking it when you used to speak in tongues or did they actually get you to believe that the Holy Spirit really induces the Babel-talk?

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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27-12-2011, 05:28 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2011 05:40 PM by kineo.)
RE: Speaking in tongues???
(27-12-2011 05:10 PM)Malleus Wrote:  And one more thing: again, I know all too well what peer pressure does to people and how much humanity, reason and dignity one needs to sacrifice to get in line with the religious dogma of his church, so please don't take my question the wrong way:

Were you aware that you were faking it when you used to speak in tongues or did they actually get you to believe that the Holy Spirit really induces the Babel-talk?

That's a very fair question. The answer is a little complicated, because I was aware that it didn't feel like any form of supernatural manifestation (because it was not). So I was aware that what I was saying meant nothing to me, but I had been convinced that it was the Holy Spirit praying through me (I'm aware that God praying to God doesn't make sense, but with some serious God glasses and a heavy helping of peer pressure, that doesn't really matter). So even though I was aware that it was me making the sounds, I believed that it was motivated by the Holy Spirit. It's sort of a yes and no answer there, and I realize that's not very solid. There was a lot of emotion behind it for me, not so much rational thought.
(27-12-2011 05:07 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-12-2011 05:05 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  very interesting what a few vague interpretation of scripture

See, that's the thing... the scriptures aren't vague... not in the least. They are VERY blatant. I never heard a reasonable justification for senseless babbling that's done in Pentecostal churches. The Bible is CLEAR about it.

There are a lot of scriptures used to convince people that those sort of thing is encouraged in the Bible.

Here's something from Wikipedia
that I looked up to help me remember (it's been nearly 10 years, so please forgive that I don't recall the scripture off-hand).

There are five places in the New Testament where speaking in tongues is referred to explicitly:

Quote: Mark 16:17, which records the instructions of Christ to the apostles, including his description that "they will speak with new tongues" as a sign that would follow "them that believe" in him. Many scholars take Mark 16:8 as the original ending and believe the ending (Mark 16:9-20) was written later. (see Mark 16)
Acts 2, which describes an occurrence of speaking in tongues in Jerusalem at Pentecost, though with various interpretations.
Acts 10:46, when the household of Cornelius in Caesarea spoke in tongues, and those present compared it to the speaking in tongues that occurred at Pentecost.
Acts 19:6, when a group of approximately a dozen men spoke in tongues in Ephesus as they received the Holy Spirit while the apostle Paul laid his hands upon them.
1 Cor 12, 13, 14, where Paul discusses speaking in "various kinds of tongues" as part of his wider discussion of the gifts of the Spirit; his remarks shed some light on his own speaking in tongues as well as how the gift of speaking in tongues was to be used in the church.

There certainly are references to what appear to be two different manifestations, and the wiki really gives a good bit of detail on both, I think.

With that said, this sort of thing is used for control- blatantly or not. Paul's teachings are used heavily in teaching people to pray in tongues, even if the scripture is simply "re-interpreted". It's enough to move someone toward the more "touchy-feely" emotional-based faith and away from rational study and thought.

Quote:Neuroscience

In 2006, the brains of a group of individuals were scanned while they were speaking in tongues. Activity in the language centers of the brain decreased, while activity in the emotional centers of the brain increased. Activity in the area of control decreased. There were no changes in any language areas, suggesting that glossolalia is not associated with usual language function.[58][59][60] One of the researchers, Andrew Newberg, said: "It’s fascinating because these subjects truly believe that the spirit of God is moving through them and controlling them to speak." The data partly confirms the subjects' beliefs that the subjects are not in control of their usual language centers as they spoke in tongues.[61] [62][63] Other brain wave studies have also found that brain activity alters in glossolalia.[64]
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27-12-2011, 05:51 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
(27-12-2011 05:28 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(27-12-2011 05:10 PM)Malleus Wrote:  And one more thing: again, I know all too well what peer pressure does to people and how much humanity, reason and dignity one needs to sacrifice to get in line with the religious dogma of his church, so please don't take my question the wrong way:

Were you aware that you were faking it when you used to speak in tongues or did they actually get you to believe that the Holy Spirit really induces the Babel-talk?

That's a very fair question. The answer is a little complicated, because I was aware that it didn't feel like any form of supernatural manifestation (because it was not). So I was aware that what I was saying meant nothing to me, but I had been convinced that it was the Holy Spirit praying through me (I'm aware that God praying to God doesn't make sense, but with some serious God glasses and a heavy helping of peer pressure, that doesn't really matter). So even though I was aware that it was me making the sounds, I believed that it was motivated by the Holy Spirit. It's sort of a yes and no answer there, and I realize that's not very solid. There was a lot of emotion behind it for me, not so much rational thought.

Yes, actually it does make sense and I'm not at all surprised by your answer. I was just curious about your particular case because I actually heard a former Pentecostal lady talking about her own experience with speaking in tongues.

She had her "coming of age" by her church's standards and she had been praying for a long time to get the "Holy Spirit" just like the rest of her church but she never felt any supernatural power moving her and she thought she only needed to pray harder and maybe she is a sinner or she lacks faith so she tried harder and harder.

At some point, people in her community told her that *today* she will be all prophetic and multilingual. No pressure.

So she went up on the stage and she started praying as hard as she could and all the community was praying for her, but, again, minutes were passing and she didn't feel anything. That was the point when the pastor whispered: "Fake it! We all do", which in fact shook her entire belief system.

I was wondering how many other people had it as bad as her.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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27-12-2011, 05:56 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
Wow, that sounds about normal. I think everyone who gives in to it at some point reaches a place where they just start faking it, whether they've convinced themselves it's genuine it or not.

I personally rationalized it that it doesn't matter if I know what I'm saying or if I "feel" anything. It's still the Holy Spirit. I don't recall if I rationalized that way from the start or if I reached that rationalization after faking it. It was a long time ago. Confused
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27-12-2011, 05:57 PM
RE: Speaking in tongues???
Quote:"Fake it! We all do"

You got me rolling on this one....

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