Spin-off of Why I believe
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11-04-2017, 09:22 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 08:42 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I don't submit this as proof of any claim, it is however testimonials in book form by a medical doctor. Sorry for the delay in responding: http://drelaine.com/do-you-believe-in-mi...octors-do/
You have this habit of not proving your truth claims, and instead presenting "food for thought". I give you points at least for being honest, and not claiming you are presenting proof of anything.

Still, it seems like you think these kinds of links are more than campfire stories, appeals to authority, and similar. At least I would hope so, or you would just be wasting our time and maybe trolling ;-)

I do look forward to you evidencing your claims. Over to you!
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11-04-2017, 09:30 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
Since I'm not paying $10 for the book, is this the story cited as a miracle?

Linky

Quote:All But Decapitated, Boy, 9, Recovers
Jordan Taylor is being called a medical miracle.

The nine-year-old Hillsboro, Texas boy was nearly decapitated in a car crash three months ago, but doctors reattached his head to his neck and now he's made virtually a full recovery.

It's called orthopedic decapitation. Jordan's spinal cord remained intact, but his skull separated from his neck.

"All of the connective tissue that essentially keeps your head connected to your neck was destroyed," Roberts says.

Before I comment more, is this the story?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-04-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 07:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Nine replies since my post, A_Thinking_Theist, but no reply to me? WTF, ATT?

Okay, I see how it's gonna be.

Sorry Aliza I'm really losing but looking back I think your referring to post #46??

Why do you suppose that when you go to the hospital, doctors give you medicine and actual treatment instead of prayers to recite? Yes, apparently you are actually the only one that questions the claim fact that science cures people more than prayer.

Science cures disease for real. Prayer makes people feel happier. Those are different things.
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11-04-2017, 10:32 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 09:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 07:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Nine replies since my post, A_Thinking_Theist, but no reply to me? WTF, ATT?

Okay, I see how it's gonna be.

Sorry Aliza I'm really losing but looking back I think your referring to post #46??

Why do you suppose that when you go to the hospital, doctors give you medicine and actual treatment instead of prayers to recite? Yes, apparently you are actually the only one that questions the claim fact that science cures people more than prayer.

Science cures disease for real. Prayer makes people feel happier. Those are different things.

I did send new link, don't know if it will be anything meaningful to you.

Sorry about the oops wrong button. Ok Aliza and everyone, allow me to clarify my position on prayer and medical science. Yes I go to the doctor. Yes modern medical medicine definitely cures people. Yes modern medical medicine allowed me to have a new hip. I acknowledge modern medicine cures and do so asking for no additional proof as the data and results speak for themselves.

As to prayers and healing. Yes I believe in praying to God for healing. Now do I have any proof or any way to prove definitively that prayer heals people? No, none, zip, nada! Fair enough? So do I still pray for those who are sick? Absolutely! Now am I being an irrational gullible nitwit etc for believing in praying for the sick with no "provable" evidence that prayer has any effect for the sick?

Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon I have something to ask of you. I simply ask, no I beg please each and everyone here do this one thing. Call or go to your doctor or any doctor your child's pediatrician, regular md, specialist just good random selection and ask these three questions:

Do you believe in praying for your patients?

Do you pray with families if asked to?

Do you have any evidence prayer helps?

I have no idea what answers you will get just try it.

I got no right wing links, no BS polls, nothing but doctors at random giving their own testimony. Do that and if everyone comes back empty then fine everyone would be well within their rights to logically assume I am an irrational gullible nitwit.

But even still yes I will pray for those sick and hurting

It's past bedtime in TN with a long day tomorrow. Thank you for your patience. I will post more replies as time permits
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11-04-2017, 10:44 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 03:52 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(10-04-2017 09:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Why do they feel the need to do this ?
Do they think if they do it enough it will make some sense ?

It won't.
The only people who care why they believe are themselves, and they can't convince themselves believing makes any sense.

They are insecure in their beliefs and need external validation to support them. Dunno why they can't seem to get it through their heads that we are already God and just get on with the business of being. Ah well, you can lead a horse to water and all that shit ...

#sigh
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11-04-2017, 11:27 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 09:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Sorry Aliza I'm really losing but looking back I think your referring to post #46??

Why do you suppose that when you go to the hospital, doctors give you medicine and actual treatment instead of prayers to recite? Yes, apparently you are actually the only one that questions the claim fact that science cures people more than prayer.

Science cures disease for real. Prayer makes people feel happier. Those are different things.

I did send new link, don't know if it will be anything meaningful to you.

Yeah, it wasn’t anything meaningful to me. It's a little concerning that you're unable to evaluate that source on your own. When you're on this forum, please keep in mind that this is not your church. You’re among educated people who have higher standards of informational sources. If you want to prove your point, use only the kinds of sources you might use in a university. WND and Doctor Elaine are not reputable sources. No one in academia cares about some anecdotal data that is being used to sell a product.

BTW: you should use good quality sources even if you’re just presenting your opinion. We need that source to validate what you say and to judge the validity of the position you hold.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Sorry about the oops wrong button. Ok Aliza and everyone, allow me to clarify my position on prayer and medical science. Yes I go to the doctor. Yes modern medical medicine definitely cures people. Yes modern medical medicine allowed me to have a new hip. I acknowledge modern medicine cures and do so asking for no additional proof as the data and results speak for themselves.
As to prayers and healing. Yes I believe in praying to God for healing. Now do I have any proof or any way to prove definitively that prayer heals people? No, none, zip, nada! Fair enough? So do I still pray for those who are sick? Absolutely! Now am I being an irrational gullible nitwit etc for believing in praying for the sick with no "provable" evidence that prayer has any effect for the sick?

I don’t particularly care what you believe. If it makes you happy to think these things, then think them. Share your thoughts and ideas when they make a contribution to the forum worthy of discussion.

Oh, but congratulations on your new hip. Science is awesome, eh?

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon I have something to ask of you. I simply ask, no I beg please each and everyone here do this one thing. Call or go to your doctor or any doctor your child's pediatrician, regular md, specialist just good random selection and ask these three questions:

Do you believe in praying for your patients?
Do you pray with families if asked to?
Do you have any evidence prayer helps?

I have no idea what answers you will get just try it.

Facepalm No, no, no. That’s not how this works. We don’t do your homework for you.

You call a few hospitals and submit a survey for doctors to respond to. Then you report the responses to us. Then you formulate an explanation for your results, then we try to poke holes through your hypothesis. Then you take our objections and try to respond to them. We keep doing this process over and over until you bring answers to us that we can’t poke holes through anymore.

(11-04-2017 10:32 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I got no right wing links, no BS polls, nothing but doctors at random giving their own testimony. Do that and if everyone comes back empty then fine everyone would be well within their rights to logically assume I am an irrational gullible nitwit.

But even still yes I will pray for those sick and hurting

It's past bedtime in TN with a long day tomorrow. Thank you for your patience. I will post more replies as time permits

Do what you want on your own time. No one cares who you pray for or why.

When a proper medical school takes notice of the survey you're going to be conducting on a few random hospitals, and they decide to repeat your research to see if they get the same results, then I’ll be interested. Until that time, I don’t care what a few doctors observe. I have other things to worry about like actually doing my part to improve the world through my physical actions.
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11-04-2017, 11:38 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2017 11:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 06:38 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  They're forming a beachhead! Gasp

Fire up the howitzer! Tongue

I think they're coming from here. Wasn't there a time a bunch of Catholics came here from some forum? Onwards Worthy Christians or Fish Heads or some shit like that?

#sigh
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11-04-2017, 11:49 PM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 07:27 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 08:22 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  No, we're not a couple but I am a couple with my beautiful wife who I am blessed to share life together.

Ugh. I hate when Christians say they're blessed for this, or blessed for that. Why do you guys do that? It's weird, and it's doubly weird to say on an atheist forum. Speaking strictly for myself here, it actually makes me feel uncomfortable because it tells me how little the Christian in question (in this case you) knows about the world and the culture of the people around them.

Patronized is the word you're looking for here. The reason you feel patronized is that they're being patronizing. Supercilious is another one. And it's not like they even bother to try to hide it.

#sigh
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11-04-2017, 11:57 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2017 12:16 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 04:20 PM)A_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  As a curiosity would you consider any other member here to have username that might be considered as passive aggressive or possibly deliberately provocative to a theist, just wondering out loud.

Nevertheless I'm good with my proposal, I place my username in your hands as a fellow member of our human family

The fuck kinda silly game is this. Fucking meatheads, the lot of you. ... except the Graboid. And the Jew. And the commie Ukranian Mormon. And the upside down Calvinist. Am i missing anyone?

#sigh
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12-04-2017, 12:00 AM
RE: Spin-off of Why I believe
(11-04-2017 04:56 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(11-04-2017 04:23 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Unless you can come up with something new (and you can't theists never can), I'm not interested.

A universe created by a trillion year old evolved machine intelligence seeking to escape the bounds of sequential logical programming? A tale of two prophets, one a skinny, neurotic actress, the other an anti-charismatic drug addled psychopath? Love and entropy? Dang, I thought I was on to something here. Weeping

Yes please. pbuh

#sigh
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